Dark Age better than Heroic Age?

[tetley]

So I get a Renaissance Dark Age, and it was not painful at all. You just can't get as offensive with Loyalty, that's all. The Dark age policy cards flat out kick butt. As for the downsides of them, big deal--I've got plenty of culture, just switch your policies around a lot. And then, the other benefit: Heroic age actually seems easier to get than a normal->golden age.

Then I get to Heroic age, and the 3 dedications are nice, but I don't really have a strategy the leverage the superior loyalty. Okay, so conquered cities are much less likely to flip. That's good, but nothing about Heroic age helps me to actually conquer.

So far, I think I like Dark Age better than Heroic Age. And I can say with pretty high certainty that Normal Age is almost always the age to avoid if you at all can. Postpone those last-minute era points and do NOT get up to Normal Age, and instead apply those toward your Heroic Age in the ensuing Dark Age. Postpone your UU a few turns, don't let your urban city grow up to 15 just yet.

Am I wrong?

 

[Archon_Wing]

I don't know about that, but yes, Normal Ages are trash.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Just try not to fall to Dark Age in the Info Era. That is.

If you fall to the dark age earlier, it is easier to climb out.

 

[Ownsya]

I think a lot of it depends on the game and your neighbors. I've had dark ages that didn't feel like much of a burden, followed by heroic ages that were awesome. In other games I've had dark ages that completely ruined my expansion plans due to low loyalty and my city got flipped or I had to postpone war because I actually wanted to keep some conquered cities.

 

[tetley]

I like my newly conquered cities flipping. I can retake them all day, no grievances, because they flipped to free. Double shots for my field cannon.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I whinge about this from time to time on here, but I really wish Dark Ages were actually punishing, like, at all. They should be something you want to avoid, not chase, especially when Heroic Ages are relatively easy to get and also very rewarding.

 

[tetley]

I think I like it. It's challenging. First, the challenge to try and keep your era score LOW. Then, the challenge of your loyalty and the downsides to the DA cards. Then you let loose all the era scores you kept waiting for a few turns and try to score high again, but don't overdo it. My current DA->HA, I blew out the score needed for HA by 50 points. I'm still on track to go HA->GA again, though. It's kind of similar to fighting with Martyrs, where you fight to lose.

It's just kind of counterintuitive that Dark Age would be better than Normal Age, and Normal Age stinks. I would take DA over NA even for Information Age. If I'm going for a Dom win, the game will probably not reach Info Age anyway.

 

[aguliondew]

The dark age policies in mid-game give you a huge boost, during that time they are more powerful then a heroic age. E game is the only time I want to be in a heroic age. I find it hard to get into a dark age even if I try. Early game is the only time I get dark ages.

 

[Pietato]

Just try not to fall to Dark Age in the Info Era. That is.

If you fall to the dark age earlier, it is easier to climb out.

Information Era is the best time for a Dark Age now, thanks to the new cards.

Renaissance is the next best because the Golden Age dedications are not as strong.

 

[Icicle]

Yup I won a game thanks to Flower Power.

 

[GKShaman]

I love the dedication that workers have more charge and move fast? There is also one that allows you to also move missionaries and apostles fast is good.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

This is why I want Dark Ages to be given a bit more oomph. I'd like to see Dark Age specific Dedications, as a Counter-point to Golden Age Dedications. I'd also like to see Golden Age Policy Cards, just to even things out .

 

[tetley]

I was kind of expecting Heroic Age policy cards.

 

[acluewithout]

I dislike having to avoid doing stuff to get a Darin Age. I do it, because I really want that Classical Dark age, but it’s just not fun mechanically.

I used to want a lot of changes to Dark and Golden Ages. But the more I play... meh, it’s fine. Golden Age Dedications are okay. Dark Age Cards are cool. The impact on Loyalty is real.

At this stage, I think I’d just like to have 5 Dedications to choose from instead of 4. The current number of dedications just feel repetitive and I think one more dedication would actually make quite a difference to that.

 

[TomKQT]

Dark ages are a real punishment for me - the darkened graphics hurt my eyes Sad, but true.
Anyway, I've had only really a few, it's too easy to avoid them, so I cannot really judge. I'm trying to avoid them just from principle - you feel that you are supposed to avoid them.
Firaxis tried really hard to balance it - when you are not doing well, you get a dark age. If dark ages were really punishing gameplay-wise, your already bad situation would turn into an even worse situation. But the chosen solution on the other hand made ages an unsignificant feature...

 

[Victoria]

That's good, but nothing about Heroic age helps me to actually conquer.

wether it is golden or heroic it helps be conquer significantly and if they are dark as well it is better.
I find the monies gained through trading too good to turn down, and they can equate with pillaging yields on high levels and so I do not want to annoy other civs too much. I prefer to pop in and take just the largest cities and will also use Amani’s -2 loyalty promotion in this regard, pillage all their tiles so they are miserable and possibly hungry. The rest of their cities just flip. Pedantically speaking a heroic gives me no benefit over a golden but these do help me conquerbecause taking less cities allows me to move on faster.

Dark ages are a real punishment for me - the darkened graphics hurt my eyes Sad, but true.

I really cannot stand the Heroic age brightness. Annoys me no end, glad to be on deity when it happened because it is shorter.

I try to avoid dark ages because they then lead to this brightness I hate that truly gives little. 10% eureka/inspirations ... wow. I struggle to not get goldens for the rest of the game as once you are ahead you just steamroll. So later dark age cards are not my thing, are they really that good? I find the lack of loyalty a pain but the cards just seem so meh.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Yes dark ages are better actually. I pointed this out from the beginning of R & F, and it is better even in current times.

Loyalty is not a problem. The 1.5x\0.5x thing only applies on "loyalty from population", which is tricky that it depends on the ratio between you and you opponent's population. So actually if you capture a city surrounded by opponent cities you nearly always get that -20, no matter dark or golden. And when you capture all nearby cities turns later, you always get +20.

Loyalty issue in domination only happens when your force being very imbalanced. For example you have a strong navy but a relately weak land army, so that you take coastal cities very easily, but experience hardness taking the next inland city. Another instance is that you rush a city without walls using horseman only, but the next city is walled so your horseman no longer make sense. Only at that these times you'll face loyalty problems.

Even if the city rebels, taking it back is easy. But sometimes that may be uneasy after you research Steel. Then free cities independent from yours will have a 400 outer defense, quite hard to take down since the city also uses your city defense value.

 

[leandrombraz]

If Firaxis ever balance era points to make golden age streaks less common and dark ages more common, I'll cry of joy. I really don't like how unlikely it's to get a dark age unless you do it on purpose, which I don't like to do. Holding back on stuff I need to do so I can get a dark age don't feel right.

The only Heroic age I got so far helped a lot on domination. The Dark Age was cool but Heroic was broken, I never did so much in one single era like I did on that game. i was playing on Archipelago as Norway, so +2 movement for naval and embarked units from Hic Sunt Dracones made me extremely mobile, I could conquer one Civ and be on top of another that is far away in no time. Monumentality gave me more to do with the massive amount of faith I was getting and Reform the Coinage gave me more gold to buy what I couldn't with faith. It was the fastest domination game I ever had.

 

[Ownsya]

I wonder if the reason some of you think it's so easy is because you're just very good/experienced with the game. R&F has been out for quite a while now, I guess anyone who's been playing it since release will have nailed down the routines to get era points.

For me, I only played vanilla for a few games before losing interest (I didnt like vanilla so much). Then I picked the game up again recently, getting GS and R&F together. I probably have played less than 10 full games with the expansions and I still struggle to get era points. I'd probably do better if I looked at the list of ways to score points but when I'm playing I just want to keep the flow going. Some important sources of era points are eays to remember like unique units or buildings, circumnavigation, first unit of each strategic resource, etc. Others not so much. But even then it's not something that's constantly on my mind, at first I used to get to the end of an era and then think "oh no, I forgot about era points". But i'm getting better at it with every game.

Still though, I dont like to play my game like a to-do list chasing after eurekas, inspirations, and era points. Not that I dont try to get them, of course I do, but I dislike going out of my way for them if it's not what I want to do, even if in the long run I might be better off getting x or y eureka/bonus/era point. It would just detract from my enjoyment to play the game too formulaicly.

I'd say I get an unintentional dark age in about half my games, more so at immortal or deity difficulties. The other thing I noticed is that it's a bit harder to get golden ages if I'm not aggressive, especially if I start with several nearby neighbors. But sometimes golden ages do have a domino effect of one leading to the other. Heroic ages are just awesome.

 

[Tech Osen]

Somehow I was unaware or just forgot about the late game DA policies. I'm amused that flower power is one.