Dark Age better than Heroic Age?

[Lily_Lancer]

I wonder if the reason some of you think it's so easy is because you're just very good/experienced with the game. R&F has been out for quite a while now, I guess anyone who's been playing it since release will have nailed down the routines to get era points.

For me, I only played vanilla for a few games before losing interest (I didnt like vanilla so much). Then I picked the game up again recently, getting GS and R&F together. I probably have played less than 10 full games with the expansions and I still struggle to get era points. I'd probably do better if I looked at the list of ways to score points but when I'm playing I just want to keep the flow going. Some important sources of era points are eays to remember like unique units or buildings, circumnavigation, first unit of each strategic resource, etc. Others not so much. But even then it's not something that's constantly on my mind, at first I used to get to the end of an era and then think "oh no, I forgot about era points". But i'm getting better at it with every game.

Still though, I dont like to play my game like a to-do list chasing after eurekas, inspirations, and era points. Not that I dont try to get them, of course I do, but I dislike going out of my way for them if it's not what I want to do, even if in the long run I might be better off getting x or y eureka/bonus/era point. It would just detract from my enjoyment to play the game too formulaicly.

I'd say I get an unintentional dark age in about half my games, more so at immortal or deity difficulties. The other thing I noticed is that it's a bit harder to get golden ages if I'm not aggressive, especially if I start with several nearby neighbors. But sometimes golden ages do have a domino effect of one leading to the other. Heroic ages are just awesome.

Don't worry about ages.

I personally only take very careful on era points when
1. I have a ton of faith, under such circumstances I have to get to monumentality to make full use of the faith. However if the faith comes from Holy Sites, monasticism+Jesuit is better. So I wish to get into either dark or golden age, but not normal age.
2. I have a ton of Harbors, free inquiry gives a lot of science so I must try my best for a golden age.

Otherwise you don't need to care. Being normal or dark will not hurt you since even if you get to golden there's no severe bonuses. Twilight Valor on dark age is strong but not game-changing. Same for the district+1 culture golden age.

 

[tetley]

The priority of era points needs to be kept in perspective. Maybe not revolve your entire game around it, since there may be higher priorities, but just shifting things around by a few turns can change ages for you (namely, FROM Normal, TO Dark--not the other way around). Is it a big deal if you put off completing your first UU by 4 turns? Plus if you plan ahead of time for a dark or for a specific GA dedication, you can maximize it. Such as, get a religion this game, because you will want HS anyway for Monasticism. Increase your trade routes early for Isolationism, build Colossus--or conversely, reduce them for Letters of Marque. Put off building Frigates and wait for Letters of Marque to build Privateers instead. Put off settling while you play Isolationism, and wait for Hic Sunt Draconis during the following HA instead--Hic Sunt Draconis kickstarts your new cities something serious (of course...supercharged domestic trade routes to your new cities don't exactly hurt, either). Don't missionary your own cities and instead play Inquisition DA card when your friends' apostles come your way.

It may not change your ENTIRE game, but it can certainly change some of the things you do, to improve it.

 

[Ownsya]

For those asking for dark ages to be more punishing, do you not worry that a more punishing dark age or a more rewarding golden age would simply accelerate a civilization's early fate? I mean if dark ages were punishing, and you're already doing not too great to have gotten there, then you're basically doomed with no way to crawl out.

If you're already doing well and got a golden age, if they were any better it simply amplifies the snowball effect (you can already snowball fairly easily).

This makes me think that the design to have some good cards for a dark age is actually not poor design. The night is darkest before dawn kind of thing...

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Try Twilight Valor, this applies to all melee attack units, which means it also applies to anti-cav and cavalries besides melee units.

Just to expand on this, Twilight Valor applies to units with the Recon, Melee, Anti-Cav, Light Cav, Heavy Cav, and Naval Melee class tags.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Just to expand on this, Twilight Valor applies to units with the Recon, Melee, Anti-Cav, Light Cav, Heavy Cav, and Naval Melee class tags.

What do you mean? Do you mean that skirmishers also benefit from this although they perform ranged attacks?

 

[steveg700]

Once again:

A dark age is not really a punishment. The fact that you're in a dark age is supposed to indicate that you're already not doing well.

A dark age should be regarded as a catch-up mechanism.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

What do you mean?

It's fairly self-explanatory. The ability is attached to units with the matching tag.

 

[Mark the Bold]

I like my newly conquered cities flipping. I can retake them all day, no grievances, because they flipped to free. Double shots for my field cannon.

You have to watch it. After like 5 flips the game drops the bomb on you. City comes back with like full defenses, as well as encampments and next level tier units. I thought I was being cute using an enemies capital as ballistics training practice until the game flipped the bird at me. A lot of good men died for my arrogance. You have been warned.

 

[darkace77450]

According to the deep dive videos leading up to R&G, Dark Ages aren't supposed to be crippling, they're supposed to be a minor inconvenience that can be overcome relatively easy. To this end I think they work fine as is. My only complaint is that it's virtually impossible to get a Dark Age without sabotaging yourself. That means I never get to play with some of the more interesting and flavorful policy cards in the game.

 

[Nefelia]

Usually it lasts for 40 turns, but the minimal number of an era is also 40 turns, so how can that be "unusually short"? Is there a way to let it be less than 40 turns?

I play with a mod that alters tech/civic research speed, so that might have something to do with it. Regardless, in my usual experience with China I have time to build enough wonders to secure golden ages up to at least the Renaissance era. For this latest game, that was not the case. I didn't really analyze it beyond the impression that the Classical era had ended more quickly than it usually does in my games.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I play with a mod that alters tech/civic research speed, so that might have something to do with it. Regardless, in my usual experience with China I have time to build enough wonders to secure golden ages up to at least the Renaissance era. For this latest game, that was not the case. I didn't really analyze it beyond the impression that the Classical era had ended more quickly than it usually does in my games.

So are all of your discussions based on mods instead of standard GS games?

 

[acluewithout]

Once again:

A dark age is not really a punishment. The fact that you're in a dark age is supposed to indicate that you're already not doing well.

A dark age should be regarded as a catch-up mechanism.

Yup.

Dark Ages lend themselves to turtle, economising and building infrastructure. Golden Ages a more about expansion.

The mechanics are fine. Could they be more fleshed out? Yup, for sure. Moving Dark Age Cards to Dedications, having maybe an extra Dedication per Era, and or having Unique Cards for each Era would all be good changes, but what we have works.

Personally, I think making Dark Ages more painful wouldn’t make the game better. I prefer DAs and GAs just more representing different “modes” of play. If anything, Golden Ages could use a draw back, although I guess they make it more likely to get a DA so that’s some sort of consequence. And Mapuche can also just murder you.

I don’t see the point of making DAs more punishing unless the game has a bit more economic / empire management generally. If it did, I could see the value of DAs maybe tweaking the balance against you. But without that, you’d end up with just some new mechanic tacked onto DAs which I just don’t think we need.

 

[Elhoim]

Moreover, the Dark Age policy cards should be reworked as dedications, so that you’re forced to engage with the specific Dark Age comprises.

That's an excellent suggestion.