Dark Ages

[TheMeInTeam]

Thread necro! Not a big fan of game-changing events, which this would be. IMO you'd have to tie such changes into random events so that players could disable them in MP.

The suggestion is yet another scenario, like a lot of current events, that harm the player enough to potentially affect the game despite not changing his optimal decision making. I don't like events like that.

 

[Stoney the I]

Sweet

As a random-event-adds-flavor-kinda guy I am all for it. A plague in itself would be nice (imagine spreading it intensionally to the other continents hehe "here, have a *cough* missio *cough* ") but a dark age would be very very cool.

Balance wise they should be limited to non-classical age imho.

and yeah, it should be in the custom game options as well for those that think events are annoying

 

[Joshua368]

I'd probably turn them off if they worked as suggested here... they sound extremely unfun!

 

[Willem]

I see there are Golden Ages in the game, but why not Dark Ages? I know it might just piss some players off if their civilization is going well and then suddenly a message pops up saying, 'A huge plague has hit your civilization, removing 1 pop from all cities and starting a 100 year dark age,' but it would be a neat addition. It seems a bit unusual that it never happens. It's as if the world is totally peaceful--except for the crazy people on it--with no disasters, diseases, or droughts that can cause a dark age.

Of course the AI can also have dark ages, and maybe these dark ages can be contagious? So for instance an entire continent can plunge into an age of disease, lost production and commerce, and lost food. This would end up causing wars, forming hard alliances, and adding a new and interesting layer of strategy to the game. I would love to--and I am not being sick--to see Catherine, Bismarck, and me plunging into a 100 year dark age and having to totally change how I play the game during this period. This would test the player's flexibility more than anything.

A modern 'dark age' could be the equal of the great depression. Does anyone here agree this would be a neat addition to the game?

A Dark Age wouldn't be the right term for what you're describing, more like a Recession. In the real world, the Dark Ages came about because Rome fell, and all the knowledge it possessed was lost for many years. Much of what they already knew had to be rediscovered. But that can't happen in the game since your civilization never actually crumbles. It might go through boom and bust cycles but your accumulated knowledge will never disappear.

Oh damn, why do people keep reviving all these old threads? I just noticed I responded to a 3 year old post.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I don't like the way this is presented. Dark Ages are definitely something that would be interesting to see implemented. But Dark Ages aren't caused by unlucky plagues or random events. The medieval era "dark age" was a completely purposeful occurrence that was not only encouraged by the church, but caused by it. Rome's fall simply meant the birth of a new pseudo-"empire" in the church.

If we're talking about putting in an event that involves the AP for "dark ages" then I'm all in. The Dark Age would damage research (maybe -15% in each city) but provide gold for each city with the religion in it (even without a shrine). Maybe like 2 or 3 per turn per city with the religion. Maybe there could be a slight (5-10%) boost to military techs per city alongside the -15% for any non-military techs. Units could end up costing more, but also get free XP to go along with Theocracy.

The Dark Ages were "dark" for the whole of working class human beings in Europe, but the rich and powerful not only thrived, but consolidated their wealth alongside the Church (which probably accumulated more wealth during that period than any of the other time periods added together excluding the 20th century of course)). SO, if we want to implement "dark ages" we need to give big boosts to religious economies and some smaller boosts to military while damaging the infrastructure side of things. Maybe a forced usage of the Serfdom and Organized Religion civics.

 

[cdcuase]

I thought a world wide resource collapse would be interesting, where it starts off in one country and spreads to everyone connected to the trade network.

For example, because of some event, a certain resource in Catherine's civilization (like wine) suddenly becomes inaccessible because the workers stopped "working" in that industry. As a result all of Catherine's trades involving wine end up being canceled. Additionally, if she were trading wine for Washington's cows, the cow industry in America fails as well because the workers were relying on the wine trade money to feed their families (or some other reason to make cows there inaccessible). The event logically continues if Washington had a ton of cows and had multiple trades with other civs for different resources. All those trades would spread the collapse of those industry resources. Smaller countries that don't have a lot of resources wouldn't continue to spread this, but the bigger empires with a handful of the same resource would.

And what happens when the people don't get their health and happiness resources? Cities shrink, the populations get angry, production, commerce, and research suffers. Pretty much a dark age for certain parts of the world until Catherine gets her wine up and running again

Just my too cents.

 

[Shackel]

I think the Dark Ages should change for each age, excluding "Ancient". They should also give a new unit as well

Medieval-

Black Plague: +10 Unhealthiness(Changes with the game length), +2 Unhappiness, Spreads through the cities extremely fast. Unlocks a "Plague Catapult", which can infect the other city with the plague, and unlocks a new option for spies, "Plague City". Both give you a HUGE relation hit. (-1 for every population point hit by effect of an infection by you if it's a spy, and the equivalent to a nuke((-1)) if hit by catapult). Lowers production 30%+.

"Dark Age" - Lowers science and production 30%. Gives a "Alchemist" unit, which increases science 5%.

Etc.

 

[Buck_Nekkid]

I think its a good ideia, but the trigger shouldnt be random, it would depend on some choices u make throughout the game.

Agreed. Your Dark Ages could be triggered POSSIBLY by a string of bad decisions and/or abuse of your populace. Say that, in a 20-turn period, you have starvation in one or more cities, you have sacrificed in one or more cities, you have unhealthiness or unhappiness in one or more cities, then a roll is made against a certain trigger percentage. Perhaps even certain civics changes could increase the probability.

Not sure how the AI's Dark Ages would be determined. Hmmm...

Perhaps your situation is compared with the AI's, and there are many of these negative factors across several civs, then a widespread dark age ensues.

Good idea to think on, in any case.

 

[Skallagrimson]

I think its a good ideia, but the trigger shouldnt be random, it would depend on some choices u make throughout the game.

I agree with that. Each turn spent in Theocracy should get a 5% chance of a civ going into a Dark Age, but give it a few advantages as well as disadvantages:

1) Research (beakers per turn) -50%

2) All religion-related happy bonuses are doubled

3) Non-state religions have a chance of disappearing from a given city if that city has the state religion

4) Unit production +25% when at war with an enemy not of the same state religion

5) Temple, Monastery, and Cathedral production +10%

=====

Similarly a Golden Age should have a few more costs as well:

1) bonuses do not (should not) apply to unit builds

2) bonuses to not apply when running Wealth

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I agree with that. Each turn spent in Theocracy should get a 5% chance of a civ going into a Dark Age, but give it a few advantages as well as disadvantages:

1) Research (beakers per turn) -50%

2) All religion-related happy bonuses are doubled

3) Non-state religions have a chance of disappearing from a given city if that city has the state religion

4) Unit production +25% when at war with an enemy not of the same state religion

5) Temple, Monastery, and Cathedral production +10%

Agreed for the most part.

1) I think Research shouldn't be nerfed THAT badly. 35% sounds a little better. 10 turns for a tech becoming 14 turns (with overflow). Or, -50% to non-military tech research and +20% for military tech research.

2) Agree

3) Agree

4) Agree

5) Agree

 

[logofernando]

Play as Genghis and start a global dark age. Rampant pillaging with elite early keshiks can screw everyone elses science and production up.

 

[Hive Watch]

sounds good, but the effect shouldn't be too large if it's gonna be random

 

[Ramesses]

Given that the concept of a Dark Age is essentially the antithesis to the Golden Age, why not have a "Great Person" responsible for creating Dark Ages?

Actually, a better idea occurs. It's a bit off track, but...

What about having 2 types of Great People: Revolutionaries and Corruptors (best names I can think of at the moment). Revolutionaries are Artists, Engineers, Merchants, Prophets, and Scientists. Corruptors would include Generals, Spies, and 3 others to balance it out. And whereas Revolutionaries are capable of starting Golden Ages, Corruptors can invade enemy territory and attempt to start Dark Ages. Great Generals can start Dark Ages by delivering the finishing blow to a large city. Great Spies can attempt to spread plague to start Dark Ages.

And of course, Golden Ages and Dark Ages can negate one another.

 

[Shackel]

Great Scientists should be able to spread a plague in another country.

 

[Zeiter]

Given that the concept of a Dark Age is essentially the antithesis to the Golden Age, why not have a "Great Person" responsible for creating Dark Ages?

Actually, a better idea occurs. It's a bit off track, but...

What about having 2 types of Great People: Revolutionaries and Corruptors (best names I can think of at the moment). Revolutionaries are Artists, Engineers, Merchants, Prophets, and Scientists. Corruptors would include Generals, Spies, and 3 others to balance it out. And whereas Revolutionaries are capable of starting Golden Ages, Corruptors can invade enemy territory and attempt to start Dark Ages. Great Generals can start Dark Ages by delivering the finishing blow to a large city. Great Spies can attempt to spread plague to start Dark Ages.

And of course, Golden Ages and Dark Ages can negate one another.

Basically, yes, although I wouldn't include all of the new types of great people. Just use the existing ones.

Great scientists and great spies can start a plague in an enemy city (the plague may spread to nearby cities with low health, including the human player's own).

Great spies can instigate a dark age. This would involve all of the empire's cities going into revolt for 1 turn (scaled for game speed), and then suffering reduced commerce per plot for like 10 turns (recovering from the unrest), and with there being a random chance of losing 1 tech that the civ had already researched (from libraries getting burned in the unrest, etc.)

So the plague would affect health and food production (thereby also crippling production and commerce somewhat). A great scientist could cure an empire of the plague, or there's also a random chance of the plague dying out in each city each turn, depending on health, etc. (and the plague cannot re-enter a city more than once because the surviving residents would have developed immunity).

 

[Crime Doesn't Pay]

This may fit in well with Rhye's Fall of Civilization

 

[Stoney the I]

Generals, Spies, and 3 others to balance it out.

heretics
heathens
rebels

something like that?

how would it work though. once you breed a not-so-great-person you can plunge your neighbour into a dark age?
next one takes 2?

Great scientists and great spies can start a plague in an enemy city

If i a plague is really that devastating (and also can spin out of control across the map maybe) i'd say it takes a scientist AND a spy. one to cook it up the other to deliver it.
Being the first to medicine might get a whole new meaning

Great spies can instigate a dark age. This would involve all of the empire's cities going into revolt for 1 turn (scaled for game speed), and then suffering reduced commerce per plot for like 10 turns (recovering from the unrest), and with there being a random chance of losing 1 tech that the civ had already researched (from libraries getting burned in the unrest, etc.)

I love it, but I would bread a hell of a lot of spies then, if every dark age just takes 1.
the losing a tech is a bit iffy. What if i have 5 libraries doing all my science and i loose writing?
or I lose CoL? bye courthouses? EEK

 

[Shackel]

Maybe there could be a type of revolt where they revolt against a technology in general, taking it, and whatever things you get from it, down.

 

[6K Man]

I like the idea of a dark age, but one that affects EVERYONE. That way it wouldn't be game breaking, but it could have an effect on the game.

Example - if a dark age dramatically slows down science and production worldwide, a minor tech or military lead can easily be parlayed into some easy conquests, since the target civ can't catch up easily.

 

[Ramesses]

But, if it affects everyone, doesn't that mean nobody has any more of an advantage or disadvantage than they did before the dark age?