Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

Does anyone know what determines the number of free units? I know Vassalage gives you extra free units but what's the base?
 
There's a flat base and there's another amount of free units that scales with your population. Vassalage improves both.
 
slave.png

Any idea why this guy can't build a slave plantation?
* Is in Brazil
* I have Slavery and Colonialism
* Can't be done on either coffee or tobacco
* CAN be done on banana or sugar
 
BaneFire said:
View attachment 557440
Any idea why this guy can't build a slave plantation?
* Is in Brazil
* I have Slavery and Colonialism
* Can't be done on either coffee or tobacco
* CAN be done on banana or sugar
Click to expand...
Ah, I figured it out: you need to chop down the forest first.
Maybe this could be made a bit clearer, eg the slave plantation button is greyed out and says "must remove forest" or something.
 
A few noob questions:
1. State Religion wonders, do I lose their effects if I adopt a new religion e.g. Protestantism?
2. What are the advantages/disadvantages of founding Protestantism? I might reach the required tech first as England, but I don't know if I want to.
3. What are the advantages/disadvantages of conquering Incas/Aztecs? Again, I'm playing as England, and seeing I could easily get the UHV colonies for Central/South America with the conqueror events, but I don't know if it's wise, seeing the cities are on red stability tiles (and waiting for Mexican spawn), and the city sites aren't very rich either.
4. Is there a way of sacking AND razing a city and if not, why so? Concerning the Aztec/Inca situation from previous question, if I'm not planning to keep the cities I might as well exploit them and get as much gold/etc. as I can. What is the best way for that? Do conquering/sacking/razing actions itself affect stability (or have other negative effects)?
5. Am I correct on this one?The differences of sacking/sparing/establishing a governor of city are:
- Sack: lose all non-wonder buildings, and get some extra gold
- Establish a governor: normal
- City is spared: spend some gold and the city spends only 1 turn in unrest.
 
1. No, the effects always go to the controller until the wonder is obsolete.
2. You definitely will get the holy city, you are not forced to convert to it which may be a separate choice based on overall diplomacy. Other than that it's the same choice of having a non-state religion in your territory that you'd have with other religions.
3. I will leave strategy questions for others to opine on.
4. No, razing a city basically means you focus your attention on erasing the city from existence. Razing has a negative stability penalty that depends on the highest population the city has had in its history, and goes away over time. Razing and sacking cause negative opinion with the owner of the city, which may worsen your foreign stability.
5. Even sacking can keep some buildings intact. Think of a set number of building damage, population loss, unrest time and gold plundered for the neutral option. Sacking increases all of those, sparing reduces all of them. Sacking also has an increased chance of removing a non-state religion. I think I also had sacking reduce foreign culture in the city, but I'm not sure right now.
 
I believe razing should give more gold than sacking.

On the other hand, is it me or nations expand less when vassalized? I'm playing as England but my French and American vassals are barely expanding beyond their original territories.
 
WRT to conquering Mexico:
50/50. Yes the land is not great and it is probably higher maintenance to hold than settling, BUT, the cities you get completing the UHV there mean you can save your settlers for other areas, saving you time. Ultimately in the long run you should definitely give up Mexico but it's up to you whether or not you would rather be poorer (and potentially have less techs), but have a little bit more UHV wiggle room.
 
Is there a way with world builder to view another civilizations actual stability scores? I keep having vassals collapse but I cant figure out the reasons. (I make it so they have most cities in core, and I try to give them good civic combos, but I don't know what is causing their collapses)

Also, what allows you to release a nation? Sometimes I have a core of another nation and it lets me release them, sometimes it does not let me
 
You can view the player stability scores in the StoredData screen of the WB. Set the screen to Player mode (dropdown menu on the left) and select the civ.

Releasing civ in their core has the same (additional) requirements as a regular respawn. Likely the "# check if the civ can be reborn at this date" part is the culprit, as this limits a civ from being able to be released to certain windows. (For example, Egypt can only be released between 900-1300 or 1800-2020)
Spoiler :

Code: 
# used: CvScreensInterface, Stability
def canRespawn(iPlayer):
    iCiv = civ(iPlayer)

    # no respawn before spawn
    if year() < dBirth[iCiv] + 10: return False
 
    # only dead civ need to check for resurrection
    if player(iPlayer).isAlive(): return False
   
    # check if only recently died
    if turn() - data.players[iPlayer].iLastTurnAlive < turns(10): return False
 
    # check if the civ can be reborn at this date
    if not any(year().between(iStart, iEnd) for iStart, iEnd in dResurrections[iPlayer]):
        return False
           
    # TODO: function like exclusive(iCiv1, iCiv2) to simplify this
    # Thailand cannot respawn when Khmer is alive and vice versa
    if iCiv == iThailand and player(iKhmer).isAlive(): return False
    if iCiv == iKhmer and player(iThailand).isAlive(): return False
 
    # Rome cannot respawn when Italy is alive and vice versa
    if iCiv == iRome and player(iItaly).isAlive(): return False
    if iCiv == iItaly and player(iRome).isAlive(): return False
 
    # Greece cannot respawn when Byzantium is alive and vice versa
    if iCiv == iGreece and player(iByzantium).isAlive(): return False
    if iCiv == iByzantium and player(iGreece).isAlive(): return False
 
    # India cannot respawn when Mughals are alive (not vice versa -> Pakistan)
    if iCiv == iIndia and player(iMughals).isAlive(): return False
 
    # Exception during Japanese UHV
    if player(iJapan).isHuman() and year().between(1920, 1945):
        if iCiv in [iChina, iKorea, iIndonesia, iThailand]:
            return False
 
    if not player(iPlayer).isAlive() and turn() > data.players[iPlayer].iLastTurnAlive + turns(20):
        if iCiv not in dRebirth or year() > year(dRebirth[iCiv]) + turns(10):
            return True
       
    return False
 
Last edited:
merijn_v1 said:
You can view the player stability scores in the StoredData screen of the WB. Set the screen to Player mode (dropdown menu on the left) and select the civ.

Releasing civ in their core has the same (additional) requirements as a regular respawn. Likely the "# check if the civ can be reborn at this date" part is the culprit, as this limits a civ from being able to be released to certain windows. (For example, Egypt can only be released between 900-1300 or 1800-2020)
Spoiler :

Code: 
# used: CvScreensInterface, Stability
def canRespawn(iPlayer):
    iCiv = civ(iPlayer)

    # no respawn before spawn
    if year() < dBirth[iCiv] + 10: return False
 
    # only dead civ need to check for resurrection
    if player(iPlayer).isAlive(): return False
  
    # check if only recently died
    if turn() - data.players[iPlayer].iLastTurnAlive < turns(10): return False
 
    # check if the civ can be reborn at this date
    if not any(year().between(iStart, iEnd) for iStart, iEnd in dResurrections[iPlayer]):
        return False
          
    # TODO: function like exclusive(iCiv1, iCiv2) to simplify this
    # Thailand cannot respawn when Khmer is alive and vice versa
    if iCiv == iThailand and player(iKhmer).isAlive(): return False
    if iCiv == iKhmer and player(iThailand).isAlive(): return False
 
    # Rome cannot respawn when Italy is alive and vice versa
    if iCiv == iRome and player(iItaly).isAlive(): return False
    if iCiv == iItaly and player(iRome).isAlive(): return False
 
    # Greece cannot respawn when Byzantium is alive and vice versa
    if iCiv == iGreece and player(iByzantium).isAlive(): return False
    if iCiv == iByzantium and player(iGreece).isAlive(): return False
 
    # India cannot respawn when Mughals are alive (not vice versa -> Pakistan)
    if iCiv == iIndia and player(iMughals).isAlive(): return False
 
    # Exception during Japanese UHV
    if player(iJapan).isHuman() and year().between(1920, 1945):
        if iCiv in [iChina, iKorea, iIndonesia, iThailand]:
            return False
 
    if not player(iPlayer).isAlive() and turn() > data.players[iPlayer].iLastTurnAlive + turns(20):
        if iCiv not in dRebirth or year() > year(dRebirth[iCiv]) + turns(10):
            return True
      
    return False
Click to expand...


Ahhhhhhhhhhhh that makes sense!

Is there a way to check the windows in the code ? Where can I find the windows
 
Looking at some civs stability I noticed this:

-------------------

Japan has -10 expansion stability, yet they only have two cities inside core and no other cities. (they semi-collapsed and released 2 cities, putting them from 4 to 2)

Mongolia has -6 expansion stability, yet has 12 core vs 11 outside population

Tibet has -8 expansion stability, with 6 core vs 0 outside population

---------------------

What is giving all of these nations negative expansion stability? Is it the "if they survive too long get stability penalty" at play here? Or what could it be? I don't see a way to inquire further as to what the numbers are. And concepts on civiopledia does not seem to give any clues what could be causing the problem outside too low core pop or razing cities. I just want vassals to stop collapsing :( Most living civs have negative expansion stability
 
Theophilos said:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh that makes sense!

Is there a way to check the windows in the code ? Where can I find the windows
Click to expand...

They are in Consts.py. Search for "tResurrectionIntervals". (Or "dResurrections" in the rewrite branch)
 
Theophilos said:
Looking at some civs stability I noticed this:

-------------------

Japan has -10 expansion stability, yet they only have two cities inside core and no other cities. (they semi-collapsed and released 2 cities, putting them from 4 to 2)

Mongolia has -6 expansion stability, yet has 12 core vs 11 outside population

Tibet has -8 expansion stability, with 6 core vs 0 outside population

---------------------

What is giving all of these nations negative expansion stability? Is it the "if they survive too long get stability penalty" at play here? Or what could it be? I don't see a way to inquire further as to what the numbers are. And concepts on civiopledia does not seem to give any clues what could be causing the problem outside too low core pop or razing cities. I just want vassals to stop collapsing :( Most living civs have negative expansion stability
Click to expand...

I guess you are looking at the value called "iLastExpansionStability". Looking at the code, I see that value only gets updated when the periphery population exceeds the core population. As a result, it is the last value when that was the case. It is possible that the core population exceeds the periphery population during a later stability check, but then the value is not updated and will remain the old (negative) value.

It is not harmfull though. The value is still calculated in the stability calcutions, it is just not saved in the StoredData. And the parameter in the StoredData is not used anywhere. (It is only saved, but never loaded) The parameter in the StoredData is probably redundant now.
 
Last edited:
Interesting.
 
Just started playing this awesome mod but I don't really understand the doom-stack spawning triggers. Playing as Portugal I got a stack in the new world when I meet the Aztecs but playing as the Greeks I got no units while the AI gets stacks everywhere around Persia and Egypt during the time of Alexander, is this just to help out the AI? and if so is there any info of what civs you can and can't get these kinds of events with?
 
lohaller said:
Just started playing this awesome mod but I don't really understand the doom-stack spawning triggers. Playing as Portugal I got a stack in the new world when I meet the Aztecs but playing as the Greeks I got no units while the AI gets stacks everywhere around Persia and Egypt during the time of Alexander, is this just to help out the AI? and if so is there any info of what civs you can and can't get these kinds of events with?
Click to expand...
The conqueror's event for being the first to discover a Native American civ is the only one that applies to human and AI equally. Trading Company events are available to both as well, but for the AI it's enough to just discover the tech that unlocks the National Wonder while the human has to actually build it IIRC. All other conqueror events are only there to help out the AI I think.
 
What is the mechanical difference of zones coded as minority vs periphery vs historical for religion?

I see Judaism has minority in most places, Confucianism minority in japan

But other religions I cannot find much for minority.

What is the difference of having something labeled as periphery vs having them labeled as minority? Periphery vs historical?
 
Does mongols not always declare war right away? Playing china, first game they declared right away. Second game, they did not declare war on me, and few turns later demanded tribute (which I accepted, and seems to protect oneself) Is this normal? I know when they get in contact with nations like Russia they auto-declare war
 
Theophilos said:
What is the mechanical difference of zones coded as minority vs periphery vs historical for religion?

I see Judaism has minority in most places, Confucianism minority in japan

But other religions I cannot find much for minority.

What is the difference of having something labeled as periphery vs having them labeled as minority? Periphery vs historical?
Click to expand...
Core: the religion will always be able to spread here, and will spread much faster here for a while after being founded
Historical: the religion spreads as much as in core if it is the controller's state religion, otherwise it spreads like a minority (also, it will spread faster here after being founded if it is a proselytising religion or the controller has no state religion)
Periphery: the religion spreads as much as in core if it is the controller's state religion, otherwise not at all
Minority: regardless of the state religion, the religion can spread here, but at a lower rate, and can never be the first religion to spread to a city
None: the religion cannot spread here regardless of state religion
 
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