Ogi123
The End is the Beginning is the End
Trade routes are automatic, you will always have them. Only choice is adopting civic with no foreign trade and OB. Since isolationism is garbage you will not adopt it, so only choice is with who to OB.
Dawn of Civilization General Discussion
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
1SDANi
Sister Lady
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 2,932
Does the resources your city and the target city has play any role in profits? I can imagine a civ like imperialist Britain using it's large territory's resources and many neighbors to gain immense profit. Is that already a thing?
Ogi123
The End is the Beginning is the End
No, factors mattering in trade route yield are, from what I remember, city size, distance, is route intercontinental, peace length time and buildings.
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
Nope, though that might be a good idea sometime down the line, and IIRC diversity of nearby luxury resources influences trade route yield in CivV.
As far as I know, these are the factors that influence trade route yields, at least in unmodded BtS:
-City Population of the city having the trade route (beyond a threshold of size 10 every pop point grants a +5% modifier)
-City Population of the city targeted by the trade route (beyond a threshold of size 10 every pop point grants +0.05 base profit)
-Connection with capital (flat modifier of +25%, you don't get this if the city in question does not have a trade connection with your capital)
-Separation by water/intercontinental trade (flat +100% modifier if the trading cities are not on the same landmass; in DoC this has been replaced by a distance modifier I think)
-Foreign trade (For every turn you have been at peace with another civ your trade routes with their cities gain a small +% modifier up to a maximum of +150%; so if you only made peace with another civ last turn your foreign trade bonus modifier with them will be minimal and barely noticeable for the near future)
-Buildings
(-Civics; IIRC there is no unmodded civic that actually grants a modifier to trade route yield, however the function for it is fully programmed and it would require a simple XML edit to make any civic grant one)
What I would really like is a modifier for cities' culture levels, though I heard through hearsay that there is a building or two that does just that in this very mod. God, Leoreth has made so much progress over the past months, it's genuinely intimidating me.
Plans for that are already in the works, and I have actually spent some time on this on the last couple of days. The idea is to use the current concepts of trade, corporations, resources (including happiness/health) and diplomacy and interrelate them more closely.
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
1SDANi
Sister Lady
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 2,932
I would honestly love if large trade empires could be a economy strategy like Cottages and Specialists. Maybe more buildings could affect trading, like granaries increasing income from wheat and rice. I don't know, I just feel like it'd be so cool if a nation could sustain themselves off of trade itself.
While we're speaking of that, how would modern America's economy be represented in game? Is there a movie corporation that'd be housed in Hollywood? Would there be a software corp in silicon valley?
EDIT: Just for clarity, I mean granaries increasing trade route income from sending wheat and rice to cities that don't have access to it.
Last edited:
1SDANi
Sister Lady
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 2,932
Yeah, looking at hit movies all they do is give happiness, I would say if you end up modifying trade routes in the way I talked about, it may be a good idea for hit movies to produce commerce from trade. Another idea may be that cities that have a trade route to a city that produces hit movies could gain 1 happiness.
Also, is Hollywood the only way to get a hit movie? Aside from the obvious addition of Bollywood, it may be an interesting idea for great artists to be able to make a Hit Movie in cities with a cinema or even studio if we wanted to add something.
Also, I see there's no hit video games, hit books, hit et cetera. I know it's probably not the best idea to go so in depth with something that can easily be abstracted into a more manageable type, and video games only recently became a big player (1980s for cultural impact and last 20 years for major GDP impact), but I'd say works like Shakespeare deserve way more than a one time culture bonus. Heck, I'd bet together we could probably think of some types for each era. Stories like Gilgamesh for Ancient, Plays for Classical, etc.
On a similar topic, it may be interesting for Prophets to create religious texts, which could work like a hit work but increase religious spread rate through trade routes in addition to or instead of commerce.
Also, is Hollywood the only way to get a hit movie? Aside from the obvious addition of Bollywood, it may be an interesting idea for great artists to be able to make a Hit Movie in cities with a cinema or even studio if we wanted to add something.
Also, I see there's no hit video games, hit books, hit et cetera. I know it's probably not the best idea to go so in depth with something that can easily be abstracted into a more manageable type, and video games only recently became a big player (1980s for cultural impact and last 20 years for major GDP impact), but I'd say works like Shakespeare deserve way more than a one time culture bonus. Heck, I'd bet together we could probably think of some types for each era. Stories like Gilgamesh for Ancient, Plays for Classical, etc.
On a similar topic, it may be interesting for Prophets to create religious texts, which could work like a hit work but increase religious spread rate through trade routes in addition to or instead of commerce.
star15389
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 493
I like the idea of hit novels a lot but hard to think of something like Tin Pan Alley or Hollywood that concretizes it. Lots of countries "export" novels too, nothing similar to overwhelming American preponderance in movies or pop music. Could be a national wonder that requires a Great Artist and X amount of commerce in that city, or something like the Indie Music/Movies event from vanilla that triggers with high culture/commerce cities
1SDANi
Sister Lady
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 2,932
Well that's why I was thinking perhaps Great Artists could create great works in cities with specific builidings. Theatre for plays, Libraries or nothing at all for Novels, Studios for Movies, and I was thinking perhaps Hollywood would give 3 Works from Artists instead of 1. I had a bunch planned out in my post, but deleted it because I couldn't find a good way to word it.
I was thinking this way Great Works could be it's own gameplay style. Early game you have literature's great plays which give gold per turn if the city has a theatre and gold from trade routes with cities with theatres and the first great artist points, then paper lets you get Novels which give gold from trade routes with cities with libraries and requires paper.
Not sure what the work for renaissance should be.
Then the later eras are when this strategy becomes super useful, Film, Radio, Television and Computers all come one line after the other, making what was in previous eras a way to back up a economy based on trade into a full blown economy type. Build cities devoted to creating great artists and pump out hit works, with the +3/+2 instead of 1 great works from Hollywood and Bollywood respectively, the two countries would become forces to be reckoned with, and it'd give California it's real life income source.
EDIT: I'm on the fence with Internet though. Are web sites really like TV or Games? I try to think of things like twitter and then think of myspace.
Last edited:
I really don't think antiquity plays or medieval "novels" should impact commerce. Their effect is already abstracted into the culture mechanic. What Hollywood represents is the film industry, which gives commerce in the form of resources to trade and that's ok, but I don't think that cultural "industries" from before the 19th century had much impact on the economy.
On great people resources, I think we should draw inspiration on the ViP mod, which have a factory improvement, and lets great people (well, mostly engineers, but we could expand on it) create specific resources like steel, firearms, automobiles, etc.
On great people resources, I think we should draw inspiration on the ViP mod, which have a factory improvement, and lets great people (well, mostly engineers, but we could expand on it) create specific resources like steel, firearms, automobiles, etc.
1SDANi
Sister Lady
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 2,932
Ah okay, that actually makes a huge amount of sense. Perhaps the first such type of work should be unlocked with Printing seeing as how it was probably the first instance of such an entertainment product having a higher supply than demand.
As for creating steel, firearms, automobiles and such, how does that work? does the GP create an infinite supply, a specific brand, or do you have to get another GP every time you want to make an automobile? I would assume it works like how luxuries and iron works, being a single one needed for all.
Just to clarify my idea for these works is that their bonuses would stack.
EDIT: Oh wow, Printing comes two entire eras before Film. I'm not sure if that's a good thing. On one hand, it means we can make books less impactful so that huge empires are still the best trade economy, but allow civs to gradually phase in culture based trade economies. On the other hand, I don't know much about the history of the novel industry.
If I remember correctly, the GE creates a special building that provides 3 of the resource. The resources work like any other resources (got automobiles = build any tanks as you like).
Although now that we're probably having a bigger map with more room for improvements, I think it could be fun to have GP create only one, and only on a factory improvement, that you would then have to protect from pillage or bombardment in case of war.
Also I think we can find some "new" resources for GP other than engineers to found
artists : hit movies, songs, clothing (silk ?)
engineers : firearms, automobiles, planes
merchants : dye, silk, any food resource ?
Ogi123
The End is the Beginning is the End
What a terrible slew of ideas. You people understand that civ4 abstract a lot to provide smooth gameplay? If you want to go this route you will have something akin to Rise of Mankind mod, horribly overloaded and bloated. Remember that gameplay should be primary concern, and sometimes less is more.
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
And I don't like your face, not to mention your hideous protestant work ethic! Can't you be more relaxed, and not so disgustingly productive?
Ogi123
The End is the Beginning is the End
...But this wasn't rude at all? No personal attack and no trying to present personal opinion as fact. Seriously if somebody answered to my proposition like that my only reaction would be question why it's terrible.
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
Well, you could have worded your post differently, at least more diplomatically, like for example so:
"I'm not sure I like the direction these ideas are going. You people understand that civ4 abstract a lot to provide smooth gameplay? If you want to go this route you will have something akin to Rise of Mankind mod, quite overloaded and bloated. Remember that gameplay should be primary concern, and sometimes less is more."
See, just by replacing the first sentence and then later the word "horribly" this sounds much less rude, and almost like it could be constructive criticism.
