DDD IV: Joao

[Doshin]

Round 3

Heeeere comes Doshin:

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In 1040AD I pulled the trigger and declared war on Ragnar:

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On the first turn of war, I captured a so-so town that gave me access to Iron:

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And on the second, I took a big prize… the Hindu holy city, where Ragnar had indulged his secret desire to live life as a peaceful, cultured builder. Either that, or he had appointed Ramesses as the city's governor:

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A Spy had taken down the cultural defenses with a revolt, so I only lost one attacker. Srsly guys, Spies are awesome

During these turns, my Carrack had finally made it to distant shores and met two of the remaining three AI:

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Education and Music for Printing Press seemed like a good deal to me, so I made the trade with Sitting Bull and received a world map as part of the deal. It turns out that Sitting Bull had already traveled towards the East and met Persia… so for the first time in, like, a million games, I received the circumnavigation bonus.

The final AI was Huyana Capac. Somehow, he hasn't built a single wonder.

Ragnar’s capital was, unfortunately, on a hill and had some stupidly promoted Grenadiers protecting it. After losing two Cuirassiers without doing any damage to the top defender, I chose to bypass it completely:

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I then tried to regroup. Unfortunately Ragnar's war machine had, by this point, started to channel its troops towards me, and my own cities were all pretty much whipped out. However, since a few of his super defenders had moved out from his capital in order to attack Haithabu (Grenadiers with Formation and Guerrilla/CG), I decided to make one last push and try to take Nidaros:

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Sadly Ragnar used the opportunity to retake Haithabu and kill my super medic Still, I think the exchange was worth it. I had a spare Great General.

Since this is all that’s left of my stack:

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...and Ragnar now has Rifling eek I decided to make peace:

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A good deal.

Well, that war went about as well as I could have hoped. I now have access to Iron, a reasonable holy site, another GP farm, Marble, and a few good wonders. I also gave Persia some time to recover in their war: they're very large, but they'd already lost a city and are fighting Grenadiers and Rifles with Knights and Crossbowmen.

The current plan: tech Astronomy, Chemistry, and Steel. Upgrade Trebs to Cannons. Grow cities back to size. Build Hindu Monasteries and Temples for the AP + Sankore bonuses. Build some National Wonders (Heroic Epic; Globe Theater; Oxford University). Redeclare on Ragnar.

Also, I'm expecting a naval invasion from Sitting Bull some time in the near future:

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The red fist immediately popped up. Jerk.

 

[Grashopa]

And after Ragnar whats the plan? You do plan to dom/conquest right? I'm looking forward to seeing it.

 

[Doshin]

And after Ragnar whats the plan? You do plan to dom/conquest right? I'm looking forward to seeing it.

There is no "after Ragnar." This game is Ragnar.

Just kidding, of course. I usually shoot for a military victory. Ragnar and Cyrus are still at war and, as long as they stay that way, they'll both keep losing troops and falling behind in techs. Good news for me.

I'll look to secure the continent, and then try to gain a foothold across the water (via HC or SB, probably). I don't think Zara or HC will go for culture, thankfully, because their continent lacked all three early game religions and Cyrus built the Sistine Chapel (which Ragnar has since proceeded to 'liberate').

Zara and HC are at war, and it's possible that Zara will end up taking over his continent. If that happens, I'll probably have to try my hand at a space race.

 

[shakabrade]

Somebody wanted HA rush?

I HA rushed Raggy T91 with 15 or so HAs for start. Unfortunately, he got to Longbows then. Fortunately, I had some luck and managed to damage LB in Nidaros with first or second HA and it was all downhill from there. Raggy was reduced to one unimportant city 50BC and peace was signed for Maths and Masonry so he could Peacevassal to Cyrus and make Asoka not like Cyrus anymore. And that happened.

One thing led to another: it is now year 1520AD and I have 26 cities, Asoka for vassal, stupid Cyrus didn't bend although I took his 6 core cities., have Mining Inc, Sushi in 3 turns, 1750bpt, and my cities are still recovering from whipping. I made some screenshots now and then and will provide them when I get some time. SGOTM is using all my forum time lately.

So, yes, HA rush is possible. Problem with Raggy on this map are hill cities. But if you have a bit of a luck, it is nice. If you don't believe in luck, bring numbers (whip/chop everything but capital if it can get HA in 3 turns). I got my fish/clam city to over 120 whip anger. HA rush is actually pretty legit strategy for deity, especially if you can pull it off pre T75 (starting techs, land, gold, Oracle, etc...). If you can pull it off and have close neighbours, it might be one of the best strategies.

@Doshin

I like your game and your thoughts on diplo. Also, I'd like if you went military route. There always nukes if all goes wrong.

Although my game seems better at first, it is also riskier.
I hope I'll get some time to finish this game. Plan is using air units, Marines and residual Cavs.

BTW: Why didn't you give 120 gold to SB? He asked me for 960 and I happily accepted and got +5 bonus with him (+4 fair trade, +1 from paying tribute). It is always better to attack on your own terms in Civ.

 

[The Oz-Man]

Ragnar su-hu-hucks as a neighbor, too. He's one of the most determined military techers in the game and rarely diverts from that strategy to get worker/religious techs like a lot of leaders (e.g. taking HBR before Writing), and he will beeline Rifling, unlike a lot of leaders who will tech down the Physics/Electricity path first. I'm always impressed with your military wins, Doshin, and putting a hurtin' on ol' Rags is good stuff.

 

[WelshGandalf]

In my current game, Rag founded Confu AND Taoism!!!! Must be the side of Ragnar that managed Uppsala in Doshin's game.

 

[Doshin]

@shakabrade

You're still managing to outdo me and be modest at the same time, I see . I've only just started to learn how to play outside of the Lib ----> Cuirassiers mold, and there are a few strategies with which I have no experience. The opportunity to HA rush a soft target will present itself sooner or later, I'm sure. After a few of those, I'll have a better feel for when and how to rush against the likes of Ragnar and Monty.

To answer your question: I should have given SB the 120 gold, but I was tired, annoyed by the demand, and didn't really think it through. Luckily it didn't make a huge difference. His invasion force was, as expected, pitiful, and since making peace I've been able to trade a few techs with him (Physics, Scientific Method).

@The Oz-Man

Thanks! It's always nice to hear that someone besides me is reading the thread.

One thing that really helps Ragnar, I think, is his Financial trait. Most of the warmonger AIs are undone by their economy: someone like Monty will build a lot of troops, be terrifying up until the Medieval period, but gradually fall further and further behind. Ragnar, by contrast, is able to spam cottages early on and then, because the AI doesn't tend to whip, he has a ton of huge cities working Villages and Towns and turbo-charging his tech rate.

@WelshGandalf

I hear Ragnar also gives excellent poetry readings on weekends. Under a pseudonym, of course.

 

[Killroyan]

Nice game so far Doshin. Interesting read!

 

[Smilingrogue]

Oddly enough, despite his reputation, the few times I ran into Ragnar, he was a major threat to win culture.

Nice going so far, Doshin. Very interesting read.

 

[shakabrade]

@shakabrade

You're still managing to outdo me and be modest at the same time, I see .

Lol. Yes, I am the most modest person there is.

I've only just started to learn how to play outside of the Lib ----> Cuirassiers mold, and there are a few strategies with which I have no experience. The opportunity to HA rush a soft target will present itself sooner or later, I'm sure. After a few of those, I'll have a better feel for when and how to rush against the likes of Ragnar and Monty.

I started my Deity adventure with War Chariot rush. HA rush followed. Then, Cavalry rush and Cuirassier rush was next. So I actually have more experience with HA rush than Cuir rush. I did at least 20 HA rushes on deity. Most of them were successful, Problem at the beginning was that I didn't know how to win without rushing somebody. Now that I have tried all the variants except modern war with modern armors and stealth bombers, I can start using mounted units again. I was actually banning them from my play so I don't become to attached to them.

HA rush is more or less simple. If you have food, whip it, if you have lots of forests, chop it. This start had both. What it didn't have was ability for early HBR. What I achieved at the end of my rush was a bit lesser then typical REX strategy I favor the most. But we didn't have room to expand so this rush was natural and best choice.
Recovering from HA rush is another issue and takes more skill than HA.

To answer your question: I should have given SB the 120 gold, but I was tired, annoyed by the demand, and didn't really think it through. Luckily it didn't make a huge difference. His invasion force was, as expected, pitiful, and since making peace I've been able to trade a few techs with him (Physics, Scientific Method).

Now that you say that, I am not so sure about letting him have my one turn worth of gold...

 

[shakabrade]

Here's noobish like screenie aglomerate:

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HBR could have been researched much earlier if I skipped The Wheel and Pottery and also if I researched hunting before AH, but didn't know I was going to HA rush from the beginning.

I have wonderspammed a bit since other continent seemed to be slow (you can tell that by wonders and religions). I've built TGL, Parthenon and Taj Mahal. So nice to have Marble and forests.

Don't think I'll finish the game. I am neglecting my SGOTM too much last couple of days and have to catch up.

Bring it home, Doshin.

 

[klonoklown]

Great work Doshin. Love the read so far, you got a big pair of **** to go after Ragnar like that.

 

[Doshin]

Round 4

After the brief war with Ragnar, I switched into Organized Religion to rebuild. Hindu Monastries and Temples were spammed everywhere, Oxford was built in my capital, the Heroic Epic went to Ragnar’s former wonder center, and the Globe Theater was placed in his former capital. I was also one turn away from building the Taj Mahal, but Zara beat me too it. Still, I got 700 gold from the build, which ain't too bad.

Sitting Bull declared in 1330 AD to much fanfare:

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"I'd like to thank Ragnar, for both organizing and supporting the motion. We Hindus, followers of the true faith, must stick together, no matter how great the burden we must bear."

I forgot to take a picture of SB's stack, but it roughly contained five Catapults, two Macemen, two Elephants, and a Longbow. This was split into two invasion forces. I lost one Cuirassier wiping these out, to a Longbow at 98% odds

Anyhoo, I teched to Steel, Military Tradition (to trade with Zara for RP, and with HC for Economics) and Rifling, leading me to declare against Ragnar for a second time, in 1530 AD. This time, it was serious

First, I waited until Ragnar's stack was three tiles into Cyrus' territory:

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Just two tiles in the picture, but I took a turn to draw my Cuirassier back.

I had two stacks, designed to sweep through Ragnar’s cities in a pincer movement:

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In the West:

and in the East:

The Western stack did just fine:

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The Eastern stack… eh, not so well:

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Run away!

Whoops. Oh well. His attack force wasn’t able to cope with my CGIII Rifles, who were sitting pretty in his former capital. I'd feel bad, but it's not like I hadn't gone through the exact same thing.

In any case, my Western stack continued its (now one-armed) pincer movement:

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4 settled GGs and a Great Prophet, in a pretty poor spot.

Third time’s the charm.

Ragnar’s obviously having better luck elsewhere.

A few more cities then followed. I won’t bore you with the details, but some highlights of this period:

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Asoka broke free.

A nice city.

That was my Great Artist, Asoka. I hope the two turns of culture were worth it, before Ragnar smashed you over the head.

Statue of Zeus inspired war weariness:

Peace:

Now I can take over the continent. Ragnar really did a number on Cyrus. He lacks Steel and Steam Power, while I have Cannons and Infantry. So that shouldn't be too difficult. Asoka only has four cities. I'll probably wipe him out while I build a navy to invade Sitting Bull.

Oh, and I built a Feitoria for kicks:

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That's +5 more than the base building could provide. And that can only go up. WOWWWEE.

 

[The Oz-Man]

Holy frijoles! Feitoria is totes OP gang, hope they patch it.

Good job getting Rags on the winning team, seems like mop-up at this point.

 

[Grashopa]

The chariot rush

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Actually Ragnar had writing and I had scouted him at 5 cities 2 archers per at 1000 BC. Attacked 600BCish with 36 chariots taking 2 cities with only 3 archers and the next two with 2/3 archers, 2 chariots and 1 catapult which meant ~28 losses.

I'd like to take techs for peace, but with so many losses Ragnar won't talk and its possible he thinks hes winning right?

I didn't get the GLh from Ragnar, but I did get the MoM and the +1 priest trading one along with the shrine. My diplo sucks since Asoka refuses to build missionaries so I can get to buddhism...

Shows the importance of scouting I guess, but with a little better land I'm not sure its worth risking this if you can lib MT or rifling. As you can see shakabrade's pics snagging the high food capital is great in our case though.

Love seeing your game Doshin.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Did Ragnar call that vote for war against Sitting Bull? Nice of him to give you a hand.

Could you post a screenie of the tech trade screen? I am curious to see what the global tech pace is like.

 

[soundjata]

Sucks to be Ragnar lol

 

[Doshin]

@Grashopa

Well, I'm impressed. I didn't think a Chariot rush could be done, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

@Smilingrogue

Ragnar was the AP Resident at the time and called the vote. It didn't matter very much in practice, but it did mean that I wasn't SB's worst enemy later in the game, which I think helped me to make a few trades.

The tech screen at 1680AD:

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[Manco Capac]

@Grashopa

Well, I'm impressed. I didn't think a Chariot rush could be done, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

Isn't the moment Mylene should appear and says chariot rush is just too risky or simply BS?

It happened to me to destroy an entire deity AI with chariots, but it also happened most cities were on flat lands, no metal, horrible jungle isthmus and that AI was Augustus busy with GLH with a weak production capital. Still, it cost me a hell of chariots.

Grashopa showed it works but the efficiency seems very low.
War success mechanics don't rely on how far you crush the opponent, but basically the losses even though the opponent is nigh crushed.

 

[Doshin]

Round 5

In 1695 AD, I declared war on Cyrus after the army with which I had conquered the Vikings had fully healed. My Cannons and Infantry were fighting Rifles, Grenadiers, and Catapults. Now this was much more like it. Some highlights:

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With seven cities lost, Cyrus threw in the towel:

I immediately thereafter turned my attention to Asoka.

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Asoka has settled four Great Prophets, and must have generated another one for a shrine. Who does that?

The end of the once mighty civilization of India:

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Asoka had beaten me to the Music Great Artist earlier in the game, but in the last few turns of our war, after 2000 years of waiting, I finally generated a Great Artist of my own. He was immediately put to work to kick off my third, and final Golden Age, with 50% added thanks to the Mausoleum of Mausolus:

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I would have saved my Great People had I been trying for Space, but now was as good a time for a GA as any. I performed a massive civic switch into Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, and Caste System, and continued to industrialize.

It was truly a Golden Age. I was voted in as U.N. General Secretary, and lived up to my election promises by promptly building an invasion fleet. Sitting Bull would pay for his earlier invasion of the proud Hindu homeland:

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The initial defense force:

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I was a little hesitant about rushing in. Sitting Bull is a huge unit spammer, presumably because he gets attacked so frequently by the warmonger AIs. And, as far as I could tell, he hadn't been at war for the entire game, so all of his Super Archers and Longbows would now be Super Infantry. That's never any fun.

Sure enough, there were some reinforcements in waiting. But it wasn't anything too worrisome:

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Smash:

Another coastal city:

His capital:

Yep. Life was looking pretty good. It was only a matter of time before SB would fold, and the game would be virtually won. So on the next turn:

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Er, ahh, well... ok. Fine. I guess I'll have to deal with Zara sooner rather than later. No matter. Still business as usual:

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Ummm:

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Ahhh:

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