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Dear Fixaris: In this tactical game, are we EVER going to get canals?!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by vra379971, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. Thorburne

    Thorburne Centurion

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    I'd say that is a pretty fair implementation. I don't think that they necessarily have to be expenssive. There can also be earlier canals, but they would be more limited (i.e. only one tile sections, limit the ships that can go through, etc.)

    Also, since they are on land, being pillaged by land units renders them useless until repaired.

    Trust me... even the largest of ships (Aircraft Carrier) can fit through the Suez. I've been through there on a Carrier, so I know.
     
  2. vra379971

    vra379971 Chieftain

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    Indeed. The 5th Fleet passed through the Suez recently. Seems realistic.

    In terms of implementation, I'd say start with 1 hex with engineering, and then scale up to 3 hex max by modern age.
     
  3. Revoran

    Revoran Chieftain

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    Actually, the shortest point between Great Britain and mainland Europe (France) is around 34 kilometers (21 miles). There are bridges over water in the world longer than this.

    I'm not sure whether it would be practical to build a bridge across the strait of Dover due to ocean currents etc, but going by pure distance it's not that unbelievable.
     
  4. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Canal spam is a problem. I think having them keep it as a world wonder (Panama canal) with perhaps a small wonder (Suez Canal) would keep things limited. You dont want a human player using things like Canals to their advantage, and it's one of those late additions to the game that will most assuredly get very little AI testing, so it will be broken in favour of humans as is with many XP 'vanity' features that devs like to add as fanservice.
     
  5. steave435

    steave435 Chieftain

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    I said early canals. The Suez is WAY bigger then it was even a hundred years ago when it was new, and that's still a few thousand years after the game starts.
     
  6. vra379971

    vra379971 Chieftain

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    Early canals fit early boats. *shrug*

    To keep things flexible, and address spam usage, you could have one per civ Canal project, which would give every civ X hexes based on the maptype and mapsize. Then, a late game wonder which would add more to one civ.
     
  7. Thorburne

    Thorburne Centurion

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    As vra379971 pointed out, earlier ships would not need "Big" canals... they can grow with the times.

    I disagree with making them wonders. It just wouldn't make sense. I say make it an improvement that is limited to a single tile that must touch water. That way you couldn't canal across an entire continent (at the widest point).
     
  8. Asderfut

    Asderfut Chieftain

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    i don't think making restrictions on the distance from water tiles is realistic. It would be more plausible to say that it needs to be built on flat land and has like 5 gpt maintenance.
     
  9. Glassmage

    Glassmage The Desert Flame

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    I agree with the idea above. Doing that would give players advantage in mobility but a hit in the much needed gold. The wonders idea is too limited.
     
  10. MARDUK80

    MARDUK80 Chieftain

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    This is very good idea! They should give work boats some terraforming abilities. So you could turn coastal water tiles into land tiles. Thus creating land bridges to nearby coastal islands and to other continents (SMAC style). This would give interesting new strategical opportunities and could be used to make new city spots on small land masses.

    Though it should be very expensive and time consuming to do. At first I thought this would be one of Netherlands new abilities, but it seems it is ability to improve marsh tiles. Terraforming should be available to all Civs and work boats are the best way, I think. Earlier I suggested that perhaps in city screen you could select water tiles and then transform them to land tiles (much like you buy tiles with gold).

    Canal improvement should also be a work boat terraforming ability. Loved the forts ability in Civ4 and have been missing something similar from CiV. Just make it very expensive, it takes a long time to build one and max. two tiles long. Could be connected with cities though: water-canal-city-canal-water or water-canal-canal-water. :)
     
  11. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    While you might technically be right, I'm pretty typically conservative about adding new features out of fear that they'll be abused. While an artificial restriction is unrealistic, so is any result that features over-long canals (of ocean depth, I'm not talking about the Erie Canal).
     
  12. forty2j

    forty2j Chieftain

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    I like this idea.

    When I was playing a conquer-everything (Total Domination, I guess) game on the Earth map, I built a city on the 1-hex isthmus where the Panama Canal would be for the express purpose of getting my east coast-based navy to Asia.

    I'd go with high maintenance rather than national wonder as the limiting factor though.

    What if maintenance = c * 2^n, where n is the length of the canal in tiles? Constant c could vary by map size.. say 16 for tiny, 0.5 for huge.
     
  13. craig123

    craig123 Chieftain

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    Just say that canals can only be built on tiles that are adjacent to the coast. It's not particularly "artificial" and would limit their length to two tiles.
     
  14. Gedrin

    Gedrin Chieftain

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    Well... I play with mods... lots of mods... The CivV I play is vastly different from out of the box... and besides... IMO the base CiV is with the Unofficial Patch and VEM mod applied [I mean many of Firaxis' official patches come from this mod... I think it was part of the business model kinda like "well we cant balance it nearly as well as the player base can so lets wait for them to do it for us and...", but I digress]

    Point is I have been playing of late with
    UPDATE Defines SET Value = 0 WHERE name = 'MIN_CITY_RANGE';

    Its fun and far more interesting when it comes time to attack a civ that has clustered 3 cities together. So many ranged attacks from those cities... losses are high that is for sure.
     
  15. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    That's an excellent way to do it.
     
  16. forty2j

    forty2j Chieftain

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    Anyone know how many tiles across Panama is on a Huge earth map?

    (Limiting it by tile size doesn't seem like it would scale terribly well. On one map you may not be able to cross Panama, and on another map you may be able to cut a vertical canal through Australia.)
     
  17. craig123

    craig123 Chieftain

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    But the same issue arises for ranged combat and city placement, and these don't scale with map size. I don't see it being a problem.
     
  18. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Panama is one tile. As is the Suez. If we go both Earth Maps alone, Canals are unnecessary since they can be adequately represented by just building a city on the spot.
     
  19. Thorburne

    Thorburne Centurion

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but in Civ 5, aren't cities limited to the city owner entering? I think in Civ 4 (been a while since I played that) you could enter a friendly city not owned by you, but I don't believe that is the case with Civ 5, making Cities as Canals only viable for the owner.
     
  20. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Can't you pass through the city with open borders? You certainly can't end your turn there, but I believe you can pass through.
     

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