declaring war v. getting attacked

[web25]

i went to war to get some resources and luxuries, i took out about half of their empire than signed a peace treaty. now i want to take them out. should i start attacking or wait for them to attack? im asking for your opinions on how this effects my rep.

also how can i get a civ to start a war against me? i move units into their space every turn and have even had a worker roam around in their territory.

any input and stories would he helpful, thanks.

 

[vmxa]

If you still have a peace treaty with truns left and attack, you take a rep hit. If turns are over, then you can declare as long as you do not have troops in their borders at that time as that would get you another hit.

If you have trops in their land and they did not tell you to leave after a few turns, they are very weak or you have an RoP.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

also how can i get a civ to start a war against me?

- Turn down extortion attempts
The problem is, there might not be any extortions. And if, they might not declare.

- Give leave or declare orders, aka boot orders
The problem, there must be units in your territory. And if there are, they might just leave.

- Failed espionage
The problem, it takes a good deal of money to do technology theft. And if you succeed in failing, the AI might just overlook it. (Note: You will not receive war happyness this way.)

- Bundling up peace treaty and lux/resource imports and cutting the trade route
It is necessary that you are at peace and that peace is renegotiatable. The AI also has to have something that you can import. And if you cut the trade route, make sure you don't cancel any lux/resource exports, or else your reputation is shot. (It is also a fairly exploitive technique.)

- Bundling up peace treaty and military alliances and waiting for the AI to sign peace
You can be at war while you sign such a bundle, or you can do it with a renegotiatable peace treaty. You have to have 'third party' AI civs against which you can sign MAs however. One problem is, that if your mutual enemy is destroyed, you will receive a rep hit. Another is, that your MA partner may actually honour the alliance for ... forever.

- Leaving a privateer in an empty coastal town and hoping that an AI attacks that Privateer
I have yet to try this. The thing is though, that the AI is after the privateer, and not after you. The DoW on you is just a by-product.




If as you say, you had already been at war with your neighbor and you took half of their land, then chances are that they will not make any demands, that they will just leave your territory and not declare, and that they will just overlook any failed espionage. Chances are too, that the peace treaty that you signed is still binding and that therefore you cannot renegotiate and bundle peace with imports or MA. They also may not have any tradable luxes or resources anymore.

I think, you'll likely have to wait until any deals where you give anything on a per turn basis (incl. peace) are up, and then maybe just attack.

(As an aside, the AI never (or only exceptionally rarely) launches sneak attacks against units (the thing with the privateers is a bug). Which makes exposing units such a workers pointless. Empty town ... hmmm, they have to be willing to go to war first, and if you just clobbered them, they are likely not.)

 

[Lord Emsworth]

If turns are over, then you can declare as long as you do not have troops in their borders at that time as that would get you another hit.

(Emphasis mine) That doesn't give you a rep-hit, except there are any RoPs in play. Even units that were in AI territory at the beginning of the turn and still are at the moment of DoW are OK.

 

[del62]

Another trick Lord Emsworth has not mentioned is have a submarine near one of their ports (preferably with boats around it), this can cause inadvertent DOWs too.

 

[RedKi-rr]

I was sneaky attacked twice in my last ywo games...AI went across half (or 1/3) of the continet with their SoD (about 15-20 unit in Middle Ages) and declared on me...He liked my empty (weak defended) border cities. And he was at war with other AI (but the last was behind me).
Am I so unlucky with being DoWed at Deity? My power rating was hihg enough.

 

[vmxa]

I was always told you got a hit from units in their land and DOW. Not really a student of Rep or Attitudes though.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/ai_attitude.php

 

[Puppeteer]

(Emphasis mine) That doesn't give you a rep-hit, except there are any RoPs in play. Even units that were in AI territory at the beginning of the turn and still are at the moment of DoW are OK.

Really? I've been pulling my troops, scouts and boats out before DoW. Not having to would save a turn or two and/or give me a faster shot at the first city with less chance for them to move defenses.

So if I move a SoD into enemy territory, and he demands I leave or declare, and I declare, I don't suffer a rep hit? Or if he doesn't attempt to kick me and I attack anyway, I suffer no rep hit?

What's the best way to game test that? Do that and then see if I can deal in gpt?

 

[web25]

how do you declare war without units in their territory.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Generally speaking, I like to initiate wars so I can control the initiative. There are some ocassions when I want to be declared war ON (to activate an MPP. for instance). In those times, I make demands of the AI until they are Furious, then try to steal their world map. (I have diplomats set to be able to steal world maps.) That usually does the trick,

how do you declare war without units in their territory.

It should be an option when you contact them diplomatically -- "We grow tired of your insolence! Prepare for war!" is how it usually reads.

 

[web25]

thanks coffee

what is your guy's strategy for conquest? do you attack your weaker opponents first or take out your biggest rival 1st?

is it wise to have mutual protect pact?

 

[Ataxerxes]

thanks coffee

what is your guy's strategy for conquest? do you attack your weaker opponents first or take out your biggest rival 1st?

is it wise to have mutual protect pact?

I think I'm in the majority of disliking MPP's. I don't hate them as much as I hate ROP's (only give those if AI can't get to me at all or on Medieval Europe scenario) but I don't like getting called into some war that gives me nothing. I like to choose my opponents and then bribe somebody into the war to help me if that seems like a good idea.

My usual strategy for conquest is what the various AI's have (resources). If that isn't an issue (and it usually is) I like gobbling up the weaker ones first.

Your reputation takes a hit if you declare war before the peace treaty is up. I usually wait a few turns and then kill them. Declaring war when you have units in somebody's territory usually means no ROP's from that point on. Not a big loss but I usually wait until near the end to do that. No reason to arouse my future victims early. You can't backstab your enemies.

 

[del62]

The problem with MPPs is it can get you involved in wars you dont want.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Really? I've been pulling my troops, scouts and boats out before DoW. Not having to would save a turn or two and/or give me a faster shot at the first city with less chance for them to move defenses.

This is correct. It is absolutely unnecessary to make sure that your boats and (other) scouting units etc are not in enemy territory either at the beginning of the turn or in the moment you attack.

So if I move a SoD into enemy territory, and he demands I leave or declare, and I declare, I don't suffer a rep hit?

In this case you will suffer a rep-hit. Defying boot orders is an absolute no-no.

Or if he doesn't attempt to kick me and I attack anyway, I suffer no rep hit?

Correct.

What's the best way to game test that? Do that and then see if I can deal in gpt?

There are several cases that you can look at. The first is, which deals are possible when you know that you reputation is good. For instance you can look at how things are with a third civ before you declare war. The next case to look at is how things look when you know that your reputation is shot. Move a stack into enemy territory, then IBT defy boot order and on the next turn look at which deals are no longer possible.

And when you have these two reference cases, you can compare with what happens when you had no units in enemy territory at all, and what happens when there were (without receiving boot orders).

And what to look for is, yes, to see if you can offer gpt for upfront, if you can still sign RoPs, MAs, if your resources and luxes are still good, and of course combinations. But you have to watch out that your trading partner with whom you test your reputation is not at war with the civ you are DoWing on, or that you are trying sufficiently meaningful deals. 1 gold for 1 gpt is always an acceptable deal, even if your reputation is shot. 10 gold for 1 gpt is a different story.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

what is your guy's strategy for conquest? do you attack your weaker opponents first or take out your biggest rival 1st?

If somebody is a stronger or weaker opponent in and of itself does not play such a big role. If my biggest rival is my neighbor, then I take on that guy first. If I am next to weaker opponents, then it is a weaker opponent. If I have the choice, then there are other factors which will determine the course of action. For example, can I use weaker civs as a help against the top AI? What kind of units do I have now, and how will that change in the near future. What units does the AI have now, and how will that change in the near future.

 

[Puppeteer]

Size and strength of the opponent isn't usually a factor in who I attack. How will it help me win is the decision.

Usually it's a matter of maintaining a contiguous empire with a single--and preferably small--front line to the other civs, so attack the close neighbor with land I want. Gaining a new strat or lux resource is a big motivator, as is denying same to others. If bigger factors aren't in play I will try to kill off neighboring Vikings before they get Berserks or Ottomons before they get Siphai, for example.

I try to prevent any civ from becoming too powerful, but I usually manage that through trades, gifts and making other civs fight each other rather than direct war.

 

[Puppeteer]

Oh, I forgot wonders. If a neighbor has built pyramids, sun tzu, leo's or a few other empire-effect wonders near your borders it's well worth planning to capture it and secure it against flippimg.

 

[RedKi-rr]

BtW, is there any mechanics of DoW by AIs? How to know whether it would attack you? How to prevent their DoW? (May be put some strong defenders in the city). How does AI choose victum? How does it decide whether to go for war?...
Is there any articles? I couldn't find yet.

 

[Ataxerxes]

BtW, is there any mechanics of DoW by AIs? How to know whether it would attack you? How to prevent their DoW? (May be put some strong defenders in the city). How does AI choose victum? How does it decide whether to go for war?...
Is there any articles? I couldn't find yet.

Attitude matters, obviously. The more the AI likes you, the less likely he is to attack. The most important thing is your military. The AI isn't frivolous, it respects military strength.

The one thing I want to say is putting strong defenders in cities, oddly enough, doesn't do as good a job for preventing DOWS as do strong attackers. Unlike IV, the CivIII AI is pretty merciless, it considers your strength a lot in making war decisions. Even Gracious AI's might attack if you're seen as weak. The AI's reading of your strength matters a lot, and the AI respects attack values more than defense values. Therefore, 10 Archers is more of a deterrent than 10 Spearmen.

 

[Theov]

Attitude matters, obviously. The more the AI likes you, the less likely he is to attack. The most important thing is your military. The AI isn't frivolous, it respects military strength.

Do you know if trades are involved in the decision making??
I mean, does the AI attack more when it has to give you GPT in a trade. And does the AI from attacking you when you're giving GPT in a trade??