Defeating a tank with a spearman *is* realistic...

[logical_psycho]

I have been thinking about this for a while, seeing people complain about how it isn't realistic to see a spearman defeat a tank.... but to me it makes sense. Whenever this happens the tank is usually in bad condition. In a real life battle it would have been ravaged.... unable to move anymore, or maybe the turret got bent, not allowing them to even fire at those spearmen. The spearmen might not get the hatch open, but all they have to do is sit on top and wait for the guys inside to get hungry. When those guys desperately do open the hatch, all there is left to do is targeting a spear at their faces. Also, if you send enough spearmen at a tank, eventually it will run out of ammunition and gasoline, making it an easy target for spearmen.


So while it is unlikely for a spearman to destroy a tank (or at least immobilize it), it IS possible. After all a tank is also more of an anti-tank weapon than an anti-personel weapon.

 

[Seven05]

I guess it depends on the scale you're talking about. It if is one tank than you'll be taking it on with one spearman. If it's a company of spearman then why isn't it a company of tanks? Incidentally, tank crews themselves tend to be armed with personal weapons, even if it was nothing more than a 9mm pistol I'd take that over a spear any day.

You realize this is one of those arguments that nobody can ever win right? No matter what point you bring up somebody always has a counter-point. I suggest getting all of the people that think you can kill a tank with spearmen and giving them shields and spears. Then, take eveyone who thinks you can't and put them in tanks. Now, put them all together in a field somewhere and see who wins

Seriously though, it's a game so why does it really matter so much in the first place?

 

[Teshuvah]

I have been thinking about this for a while, seeing people complain about how it isn't realistic to see a spearman defeat a tank.... but to me it makes sense. Whenever this happens the tank is usually in bad condition. In a real life battle it would have been ravaged.... unable to move anymore, or maybe the turret got bent, not allowing them to even fire at those spearmen. The spearmen might not get the hatch open, but all they have to do is sit on top and wait for the guys inside to get hungry. When those guys desperately do open the hatch, all there is left to do is targeting a spear at their faces. Also, if you send enough spearmen at a tank, eventually it will run out of ammunition and gasoline, making it an easy target for spearmen.


So while it is unlikely for a spearman to destroy a tank (or at least immobilize it), it IS possible. After all a tank is also more of an anti-tank weapon than an anti-personel weapon.

Well, fortunately tanks are manned by crewmen who carry firearms. Also, most modern tanks have an MG attached like say a .50 cal.

A spearman defeating a tank isn't realistic. Thrown tracks, bent turret or whatever.

I don't have a problem with it really, but it's certainly not realistic.

 

[*Nosferatu*]

Lets, have an experiement, I'll get an M1, main cannon, damaged, but then all I have to do is run you over

*Edit*

And another thig I hate is the lack of a phycological effect, If your friend just got killed by something you've never seen before from a distance of 500 meters, you aren't gonna come charging into it.

 

[Eigenvector]

Man I can see it coming, a firestorm of people who actually think the spearman beating a tank is a realistic concept...

It doesn't matter how you spin it, it won't ever come out in favor of the spearman. But that doesn't matter, Sid ain't gonna change his mind on this topic so I'm not gonna cry about it (alright I will ).

 

[warpus]

what if the spearman is equipped with anti-tank spears?

 

[GinandTonic]

Any of you see the pics of the Mech Inf component of the Desert Rats getting chased out of APC's by a mob with petrol bombs in Basra the other day? Ok so it was because there were women and kids so opening up with the .50 cal could have been percieved as an overreaction, but it does go to show that while very, very improbable it is possible.

 

[OzzyAlyanak]

ginandtonic has a point.
Yet, petrol bombs are a little different, they are like friggin napalm...
Spearman on the other hand... Its a wooden stick with a spear for God's sake. Even if you try to stick it on a tank's rail, its gonna break.
However, nothing is impossible. even if it might happen once in a million, it does in that one chance.

 

[RX2000]

This whole debate has always seemed pointless to me.

I also believe that of course its realistic for a spearman to beat a tank, given certain circumstances. Obviously if the modern armor is at full strength and a spearman beats it, something is wrong. But, lets say the MA is at like 3 str or something. This, as has been said above, would mean that the MA was in dire straits. No gas maybe, and some major major damage.

Now, I'm also thinking that in terms of Civ, a spearman in the modern age wouldnt necessarily be "stupid," they just wouldnt have great weapons. That means that they could easily figure out that if they all rush a few tanks that cant move then they would be able to take them out somehow.

Also, you guys havent ever heard the term "golden BB?" Heh

I dont see what the big deal is. If my extremely low strength tank gets knocked out by a spearman..... well, thats cool. It would be completely wrong if a full MA got killed, but I dont think anyone can show that thats EVER happened.

 

[StarWorms]

A spearman defeating a tank is completely unrealistic. I'm quite sure tanks can travel at about 40mph. 40mph tank + Spearman = Squish. People driving the tank would carry firearms anyway.

If you think you could defeat a tank with a spear, go ahead and try. I'm sure that I'd rather be in the tank though.

 

[potatokiosk]

Anything's possible. By saying that tanks can go 40 mph, you assume the terrain is good.

 

[Tarhun]

You could sorta take the view that in a modern era world, even if your oponent is still using spearmen, the spearmen would be able to get hold of some kind of more advanced weaponry that might be some use against a tank, like a petrol bomb or something. Like how many tribes in New Guinea have rifles for hunting and inter-tribal warfare even though pretty much everything else in their culture remains pre-industrial.

 

[DrLime]

To say that it's totally unrealistic is untrue, but to the extent it happened in CivIII was ridiculous. But historically speaking, it happened to the Italians in Ethiopia during WWII. Tanks can break down, and despite being armed people using inferior weapons can overcome with good strategy or tactics.

Visibility from inside a tank is really, really poor- it's completely feasibile that if one broke down someone with a spear could lie in wait on the side of a tank for someone to come out, wait for them to walk over by themselves, kill them and then take out the rest in a simular fashion using decent tactics. "Guns for show, knives for pros"

 

[xGBox]

If there was ever a real-life situation where one side had spearmen to fight against a modern tank, this is what would happen:

1. Spearmen have a chance winning against a tank if they were spread apart enough. Travelling in groups is stupid and makes it easier to take them out with the tank's cannon (which is really powerful).

2. However, if the tank was also equipped with a machine gun turret, this enables the soldiers to take out spearmen that the cannon doesn't. If the spearmen are very skilled at throwing, they can probably kill the person wielding the turret. But before they even do that, the turret would have already killed dozens of troops before they get him. If the machine gun was remote-controlled from the inside, you are screwed.

3. Soldiers in the tank are usually equipped with firearms. Sometimes they carry pistols, sometimes assault rifles. The fate of the spearmen also depends on whether their armor will also be able to withstand and maybe deflect bullets, and also how good they are at dodging bullets (which is highly unlikely they will, as armor from previous eras seem to weight a lot more).

4. If you had an army of spearmen, you would have a much better chance of winning against a single tank since you're trying to overwhelm it, but multiple tanks would be almost impossible and I really doubt a civilization would sacrifice so many soldiers in what is inevitable.

5. Spears do not even dent the armor of tanks. Spears are made of iron or copper. The armor of tanks are made of very strong heat-treated steel alloys. Other metals used are aluminum, magnesium, and titanium. The armor of tanks used in World War II were around 2 to 6 inches thick.

6. Tanks can be disabled by overturning it. If spearmen took all their crap off and just ran, they would have a chance of making it to the tank, under the range of the cannon and machine gun turret. Just let it be known that modern tanks weigh about 60 tons so good luck getting that many people to make it, more or less getting to lift over 60 tons. Also, tanks can move at around 40 miles per hour on good terrain also so overturning it is impossible if it is properly controlled by an engineer. If it was stuck in mud or some really bad position, then spearmen would have more of a chance.

7. Spearmen should not fight at night because they are giving themselves a disadvantage. They won't see as well, but modern tanks are equipped with night-vision technology and even lock-on features, and therefore can own any spearmen at any time of the day.

8. A cannon has the range of over 1,000 meters. The world record (maybe outdated?) for throwing a frisbee is only 406 meters of 1,333 feet. The number is much lower for javelins, so think of those numbers when you're going against a tank with a spear.

In conclusion, in a real-life situation where if spearmen fought a tank, a tank would absolutely obliterate spearmen practically 99% of the time.

 

[EdCase]

what if the spearman is equipped with anti-tank spears?

Would they be HE or SABOT spearheads though ?

 

[*Nosferatu*]

Yes, the head is made of depleted uranuim.

 

[GinandTonic]

Dam expensive when the vets start suing tho

 

[Teshuvah]

Any of you see the pics of the Mech Inf component of the Desert Rats getting chased out of APC's by a mob with petrol bombs in Basra the other day? Ok so it was because there were women and kids so opening up with the .50 cal could have been percieved as an overreaction, but it does go to show that while very, very improbable it is possible.

Well, for one thing an APC is not a tank.


Not even close.

 

[GinandTonic]

In military terms the apc and crew could have killed that mob, but didnt want to massicer civilians. By the time someone pulled out the petrol bombs they were all over the apc. If it had been an M1 or a Challenger2 or whatever it would have been in the same situation - take the chance or repeat Bloody Sunday/ the incident in India's independence.

 

[potatokiosk]

You're saying they only use spears. But they're displayed with shields as well. That means they don't have to use a spear, they just have to carry it.