Defensive Unit Factory (Exploit)

[Aeson]

I just ran into this in one of my privately played games, combined with a tip over at Apolyton that the AI will still accept cities given to them for free. I thought it would be good for everyone involved in the GOTM's to know about so that it can be banned from competitions, like the no palace exploit. It is a deviation of the pre-patch city trading exploit, that works with the current patch version.

The main idea is to renegotiate peace treaties with the AI, demanding all of their worthless cities. These worthless cities are the ones that are not culturally linked to the main empire, and cannot grow passed size 2 without further terrain improvements or a harbor. I found that if my military was of the same size as the AI's, and I had more cities, that they would always give me all of their cities that fell into this category. With how enraptured the AI is with building these cities, there can be a lot of them. Of course these cities could be built on worthless terrain by the player as well, as the AI will still accept cities offered as "tokens of goodwill".

When the AI gives a city to the player for renegotiating a peace treaty, it comes with a free defensive unit. This unit is the best defensive unit that the newly aquired city can produce normally (dependant on technology, and resources). Since renegotiating peace treaties can occur every 20 turns, this can add up to a lot of free units. In an 7 AI game, these cities can be given to each of the AI in turn, allowing for 7 free units per city to be produced every 20 turns. The more AI, the more powerful this city trading becomes. When you give a city to the AI, the units in that city are teleported to your capitol, meaning that the number of units flowing into your empire can quickly become a literal flood. Most maps could support 10 - 20 of these cities easily, meaning that with 7 AI, 70-140 free units could be available on any given turn. The average in this scenario would be 3-7 per turn, as there would be a wait of 20 turns between renegotiations.

 

[Matrix]

To begin with: I think it's a very good idea to make a list of which cheats are allowed (or "what is a cheat") and which aren't. The no palace bug for example is not allowed. Pop-rushing however is allowed. And I have my doubts about the danger-factor of what you're describing here.

You say that one can get 3-7 units per turn, but there are some restrictions to that. First of all, you should have contact with all Civs; they should all have at least one crap-city to give to you; they should want to make peace with you all the time; and you should be stronger than all other Civs. I wonder, if you try to use this in practice, it probably won't be as effective as you describe it here. But if you do: that's quite a prestation. Hence, it is not a cheat.

But again: it's good to list all the known cheats. Then I can make a list of it so that every player knows what is and what isn't allowed (just like they did for the Civ2 Ladder).

 

[Aeson]

Well, if you think it should be allowed, then thats ok. Having everyone on the same page about what is and isn't allowed is certainly a good thing. I agree that it this does take some setting up to do, but it wasn't hard for me to set up on a Deity game by 500BC (easier on Deity probably, cause the AI makes so many of these dumb cities so fast). The 3-7 per turn average isn't really the problem, its that 70-140 units could be "manufactured" in just 1 turn from completely useless cities. Setting this up for the advent of Gunpowder would yeild a very powerful army instantaneously. Granted Musketmen aren't very good on the offensive, but 140 free ones in a single turn sure would help any offensive. On maps with lots of jungle, or lots of tundra, this number could get completely out of hand. It's possible to set up these cities almost anywhere once Engineering is researched, as forests work because of their 1 food production. Using an ICS type spacing of citys could allow for literally hundreds of these cities to be traded on some maps. The only real limitation to how many cities could be traded is the number you keep, as the AI won't trade them back if they think they are more powerful. I'll play a game later and post a save that uses this, so you can see the possible effects.

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Aeson
I'll play a game later and post a save that uses this, so you can see the possible effects.

Please do!

Are there any other bugs/cheats/funny tactics which I haven't mentioned that I should be aware about?

 

[Aeson]

I think the patch took care of most of the exploits that were out there, I can't think of any others.

I've been playing around with this, and it probably won't make too much of a difference on standard sized maps. I've been able to get 5 cities going on a 7 AI standard continents map (just a unit or two per turn). Some cities seem to work, and others just don't for some reason (same types of locations, comparable distance from the AI's capitol), not exactly sure why.

 

[Lucky]

I wouldn´t call it cheat, although I´ve never used it before.

But it also works vice-versa!
If you give the AI a number of cities, he also gains free units. Then if you go to war and demand those cities back you get the same number of units.
So this only works in your favor the first time you go to war, demanding the cities the AI has built. After that the advantages would be equal to both sides in the city trading/demanding.
The real problem is the stupid AI, as he will probably disband the free units or others, because most of the time he has already reached his unit limit.:crazyeyes

 

[Aeson]

Yes the AI does get free units as well. The difference is the player gets 1 free unit per city per AI. Each AI only gets 1 free unit per city. Also, it can be set up so that the AI only gets spearmen, while the player gets Musketmen. Just make sure the "offered" cities are connected to your resources but not to theirs. If this is done while the player has nationalism, and the AI doesn't, then it can be Riflemen compared to spearmen. I don't know what the AI does with these units, but in many cases it would seem reasonable that either they disband them, or that it will hurt the AI's economy. In any case, it is just a means of furthering an advantage over the AI, it won't help if you aren't already winning the game.

 

[Lucky]

Yeah, as I said it is an exploit of the pretty stupid AI.:crazyeyes
But I don´t consider it a cheat.
As you said yourself it requires some time and work to set up correctly to gain a reasonable advantage.
But there are lots of ways to betray or outsmart the AI and most of them require some strategy to do, i.e. giving cities which are about to be plundered by barbs, the unreasonably high amount of gold in exchange for world maps, etc. .
Thes could all be labeled cheats or exploits of a weak AI and they are. But they are part of game. At least until the next patch.

 

[Aeson]

Yah, sometimes I wonder if warfare isn't an exploit

I'm reasonably certain that this will be patched out (if Firaxis notices it), if for no other reason than multiplayer (rumored to be in an expansion?). 2 players could swap a city indefinitely to get a huge military advantage over anyone else in the game.

 

[Rhandom]

I'm really astounded by the number of people here who think this isn't a cheat, especially in what is supposed to be a mildly competitive game.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Rhandom
I'm really astounded by the number of people here who think this isn't a cheat, especially in what is supposed to be a mildly competitive game.

What number of people?
There are only 3 different people posting in this thread!
If you consider it a cheat, DON´T use it, I won´t use it myself.
But as written before, there are numerous ways of exploiting the stupid AI. You can´t call them all cheats, they are (still) part of the game!

 

[Smash]

this is one of those things that will be in a mp pre game discussion.No patching thank you.In solo play ,do whatever you want.
In mp(should it happen) you will need to have some pre set rules.Just like in civ2 mp.There are a ton of things that can be done.
If I'm not hosting I can make NON units at will.
I can trade cities with allies back and forth for extra research and gold
I can share wonders
I can "trade" a city back and forth and get tons of non partisans
I can gift units for extra moves
I can trade caravans
.....on and on it goes.

There will be new cheats and tricks I'm sure.Good players will post an exploit when they discover it.Others will use it until it is well known.This is standard fare.

 

[Matrix]

But this time Firaxis is there, fighting all these bugs with patches...

 

[Badluck]

i don'T understand when you trade cities i don'T get any defense unit, i only get defense unit when i get a citi due to culture flipping...
but i don'T have the patch, but i played whit it and i don'T remember getting a defense unit when i traded a citi...

 

[Badluck]

even if it'S a citi trade for peace treaty in the pre patch