Deity Challenge 5 - Sweden. Pangea.

Very nice Old Peter. Its something I would like to have done given enough time and a bit more skill.

I call this kind of thing Taking Down Number One: you have to kill the leader or you cant win. Once you do it, the game is yours.

I'm all for a water map, even if its easier. How about Polynesia?
 
Polynesia would be nice. :) I have this idea: since water maps are generally easy, we can 'invite' all notorious warmongers into game (Mongolia, the Huns, Russia, France, etc.) and find out if tiny pPolynesia has a chance of survival..
 
Water maps are fun. How about Ottomans or England? Dutch would be fun too, Sea Beggar is a nice UU.
 
I think maybe England would be too easy on a pure water map. Maybe Dido? :)

Dido is way more easier than England on water.

Edit: fitting civs to map type is generally easier, that's what i want to say, but it doesnt hurt to try picking civs to maps for fun. for comparison and game play decision, it is not as good as non-water civs on water based map. Maybe continent can balance it out as Dido is fun to play.
 
I think maybe England would be too easy on a pure water map. Maybe Dido? :)

Carthage is as easy as England on water :). If you get that sea pantheon, each water resource technically becomes a salt resource, in terms of yield. In case of whales/fish - even better than salt.

I played lots of deity water maps. Usually, when there is no runaway, one can win in sub 200 by just spamming frigates. So, if we introduce 7 potential runaways (strong civs) it can be as challenging as Pangaea.

Civ choice is less important in that respect. I never played Polynesia though..

Who wants to set up the map? :)
 
You do it Moriarte and make it Polynesia. Add your nastiest AIs, but try to include Askia and some other bad ones.
 
I played lots of deity water maps. Usually, when there is no runaway, one can win in sub 200 by just spamming frigates.

Who wants to set up the map? :)

I feel I am not learning when a map is too easy. So make it a harder one than that.. :p
 
It will depend on how close the first agressor is :). For all i know you can be fighting from turn 40 on Deity islands if stars allign badly :D.
 
I feel I am not learning when a map is too easy. So make it a harder one than that.. :p

You should be teaching. You are far ahead of us in skill. Us leaners need an easy one or else lose interest.
 
I don't have time to play more deity games these days so i jumped into threads and read stuff instead.

I feel I am not learning when a map is too easy. So make it a harder one than that.. :p

Play against humans ;) It's more like deity+

Domination games are usually easier due to huge snowballing. And it's also the case for mp games. You can't survive without a single war. Tough opponents know that and you can be sure that you will be a target sooner or later.
 
I feel I am not learning when a map is too easy. So make it a harder one than that.. :p

at some point, there is only so much that can be learned. short of learning game-breaking tactics. I'm not sure what else there is for you to learn. by the way, i am not re-opening some debate on what those tactics are because it is just a matter of my opinion on what i dont like, but even when i try to adopt those tactics im pretty awful at it. I have way more learning to do to ever be comfortable with deity.

update on my game at t205:

Spoiler :
its a foregone conclusion i'll lose but im going to play until it happens. the current status of my game: last in points, about 50 behind Austria with 500. the next top 6 are all over 1000 with Pachacuti and William in the lead with both over 1500. No civs eliminated, no caps have fallen, no one has more than 2 SP finished, and no one is past Modern age yet. There isnt a big CS ally runaway either but 4 civs are sitting on 3k+ gold. And the biggie for me is that I've had no wars ... yet.

t203 I got Plastics. i barely have 300bpt (hence the foregone conclusion). i rush bought uni's easy but had to build all public school. I do have 4 DoFs (askia, austria, william, neb--a 5th with Pacha until he hated me) and had 3 RAs finish and have another 3 going. But I had one RA fizzle from Pacha because I bought a forest tile. He denounced me 5 turns before it finished. He has settled on every spot around me and I only have 3 cities, only 1 of which has tiles into the 4th and 5th ring. I guess I gobbled up too much land for him, haha. I had previously asked him to stop settling near me, I'd friended his enemies and taken Order when he took Autocracy. Those were his red texts with me until i bought a forest tile. In hindsight I wouldve taken Freedom anyway but he would have hated that too. Hiawatha is the wonder-spammer and took Freedom and hates me too now. He is in 3rd behind Pacha and William.

I have 3 academies settled and 3 GS waiting to be popped once i get all 3 Labs up (prolly another 20 turns hardbuilt). I'll still get another 2-3. But opening Order lets me faith buy a GE for Hubble for 2 more. I had no religion but one came to me about t160 and ive been saving ever since. I dont think i'll get Rat. finisher techs.

I had borderline happiness all game. the Rationalism opener bonus is periodic. I had real growth problems too with Askia and Pacha settling right up on me early. by trying to keep the peace i didnt demand they stop as it would have certainly prevented some DoFs and RAs with them. (I did save just before dowing (with xbows and pikes) to see if i could remove a few cities--once with Pacha, lost miserably to wave after wave of units--once with Askia, got annihilated by Mandekalus--so i went back to the save to keep the peace.)

My cap might get to 30 but im not sure. I finished Tradition, opened Rat. and Order and ramping up cpt to finish them faster. I have no coal, oil and barely got aluminum but its right on Pachas borders and will prolly get pillaged or citadel'd. I traded for 3 coal from Neb and have factories though. I have about 15 turns til i get Order bonus.

With Order and Labs it will jump to over 500 but wont peak much beyond that. I shouldve settled on cotton by the mtn for observatory but i hadnt really committed to Sci Vic then. I'd be over 800 if i could have 2 obs. I dont really know why im continuing this save other than curiosity's sake. Right now the only way for someone to win pre-240 will be diplo. But i can certainly lose before that if Pacha dows (or really anyone but Austria or Hiawatha). I have about 10 gatlings, 2 Hakkas, and 2 GWI one of which was a carolean. I didnt realize i completely bypassed them in tech. I wanted to get at least 5 but i sidetracked with a couple happiness buildings as i was constantly at -1 to -3 and losing the Rat. bonus.

I will say i enjoyed some of this map so far though. I NEVER see Babylon as an opponent so it's nice to see new faces for me.


haha, final update:
Spoiler :
t223 Askia back-stabbed 6 turns before the RA was to finish. Hiawatha warned me on t220 too. t224 he took my cap with 2 Artillery and 6 cav in one turn. I had 3 gatlings in position and was moving my units down there. They took out 2 of his GWIs (with a xbow and city shot). My city def was 79 and i was 2 turns from an Arsenal finishing. I quit after the cap was taken. It was my only strong city and he killed 2 of the GSs I had. Saves me time, i guess. Wouldve been another 5 turns or so for the remaining 2 cities. I can start the Polynesia one now.
 
Finally got going on this. I really wanted to finish this game yesterday but I had to sleep for work at SOME point.

Let me just preface this by saying you guys were NOT kidding about difficulty. This is the hardest map that I have ever managed to even have a shot at winning; it's not great, but it's a shot! This might be like MadDjinn's Maya LP where he won by the skin of his teeth because Gehngis' last spaceship part fell asleep. :lol: I really feel like I've made a huge accomplishment just by doing as well as I am and I think I've actually made some progress as a player. Even if I lose this I'll still be proud of myself.

short version with screenshots
Spoiler :

Went Tradition + 3 cities, hard to grow my cities because there's only one martime CS that didn't get killed. Got Tithe + Pagodas, then enhanced and got Hagia Sophia and got a huge religious foothold. My tech was also slow early but caught up later.

I was #2/3 in tech in the mid-late game but Hiawatha is insane, giant tech lead, like 20-25% over everyone. Spent most of the game fighting Inca/Dutch, finally held them off and went after Askia but Hiawatha jumped in and went faster. Dutch attacked again, pushed them back and took some cities and took Amsterdam which made me feel sooooo good to pull off. Pushing to Bablyon now, was about to nuke him but then Hiawatha backstabbed me. Holding him off okay because of terrain + CS allies + well promoted units but I may need to nuke him instead.
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Really long version:
Spoiler :

The main problem in this game was Hiawatha. He was a huge, HUGE technological runaway and he was so far away that I really couldn't stop him. For most of the game he was 20-25% above the tech average which is INSANE. He hit Industrial around 120, Modern on ~t140(!), and Atomic on ~175(!!!!!!!). He finished Apollo on t202 and Hubble on t220. I know Hiawatha runs away sometimes but wooooooow...

Anyway, I actually settled on one of the floodplain Cottons instead of the hill after looking around and seeing a lot of Hills in the area. I felt it was a good tradeoff for being able to settle on a luxury.

I ended up opening with 3 cities Tradition. This was some horrible land and I really couldn't justify dropping a 4th city anywhere. I considered going west near the Silver since I nabbed Desert Faith, there was an Oasis there to farm near and a mountain for an observatory, but William was expanding hard up north and Babylon can be a very pissy neighbor(indeed, he spent much of the game fighting Austria) so I didn't think it was worth the risk. My cities are only 20/14/14; one of the things with Deity is it's really hard to grow your cities if the AI decides to just, you know, murder all of them.

I got the second religion and got Tithes + Pagodas. I also nabbed the Hagia Sophia after enhancing and was able to just spread my religion EVERYWHERE; this was a very strange game for Deity because there was little AI interest in a religion.

I wanted to be aggressive and go through Askia and stop Hiawatha from running away too hard, but William and Patchuti would not get off my back and I spent a lot of the game just holding them off. I was finally able to get them both to back off and Patchuti actually ended up AFRAID of me which I haven't had on Deity in a looooong time.

I was finally able to go after Askia. I took three cities including Jenne with Caroleans + Cannons. About this time Austria comes to me and tell me that William is moving a sneak attack to my capital so I decide I need to wrap this fight up quick. Then Hiawatha swoops in and takes Tombuctu and Gao in 4 turns :eek:. It was at this point that I decided my only way to beat Hiawatha was going to be to just eat everyone else and try to capital snipe Onondaga. I got a sizable peace deal with Askia and ground down through the Dutch after rebuffing their attack.

I was able to take one of his cities and then hold there until I hit Infantry and that's when I started pushing. I had a mass of Medic + Siege Caroleans upgraded to Infantry and was able to take 100 strenght Utretch(which he actually retook briefly) with only a little Artillery backup which got wrecked by Battleships and Bombers soon after. At that point he pulled some Battleships in and started bombarding me on my way to Amsterdam along with a wall of Artillery. By some miracle, I was able to chip at Amsterdam enough to take it with Siege infantry.

I knew I couldn't hold it with the shape my army was in so I got a small peace deal and went to push into Babylon. I liberated Rio and took a couple of cities from Babylon. I've blown the crap out of a lot of his army with planes but he has plenty more. I went ahead and bulbed Advanced Ballistics and was preparing to nuke his huge army near Akkad(which was 35 pop and was going to murder my happiness anyway)...when Hiawatha backstabs me. I'm actually holding him off pretty well because his main force came down south, which is a crowded choke point where some of my CS allies are holding him off and my Infantry down there are so well promoted that they can go toe-to-toe with Mech Infantry. However I've decided to hold onto the nuke to see if I need to use it on him. Amsertdam thankfully had Big Ben so I can buy the nukes much cheaper.

Policy-wise I've done Tradition, Patronage-(Philanthropy->Scholasticism)Rationalism(Secularism+Humanism) and Order->Planned Economy. My cultural CS allies got killed off so that's slowed me down a bit even though Amsterdam had Cristo Redentor.

My takeaways so far:
-Holy crap this map is HARD
-I love Caroleans even more than I did before and that's hard to do
-I don't know how people manage without siege units in this game. Catapults kinda suck, you can SOMETIMES get by without Trebuchets, but Cannons are just so vital to a push at that point in the game. Taking down a 70 strength and two ~80 strength cities of Askia's with 4 Siege promoted cannons was so invaluable.
 
that Maya LP of his was frustrating. ive watched a lot of them and i was fully expecting a loss. oil and planes are all he needed in the end. dont think it'd work that way now with the patch. but that was a very good LP. he hasnt done any civ LPs in a while. BtM's dont count, imo. i guess it was only a matter of time before he moved on to other games.
 
that Maya LP of his was frustrating. ive watched a lot of them and i was fully expecting a loss. oil and planes are all he needed in the end. dont think it'd work that way now with the patch. but that was a very good LP. he hasnt done any civ LPs in a while. BtM's dont count, imo. i guess it was only a matter of time before he moved on to other games.
Recently watched some of those beyond the monument videos. While it is great with civ 5 content I think his play is quite sloppy. He loses units quite often. He attacks with the wrong units. For example when using archers he attacks with the units in the wrong order and ends up with units not being able to attack since the closest units are dead. He builds roads inefficiently when using more than 1 worker. His building priority is bad.

It would be great if some of you who beats these challenges record. Commentary is absolutely not necessary.
 
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