Deity challengers

[Dirk1302]

@mystyfly,
Interest in and time for civ is bound to fluctuate over time. So sometimes i participate more in discussions than other times. Doesn't mean i don't play the set when i'm up. Last month some interesting challenges came up in the strategy forums so i decided to take some time out for those. I will take a look at this game and also the AW game this weekend.

 

[shyuhe]

Everybody's been contributing to this game so far. Just remember that not everyone can always post comments after every set.

Also, I am with Rusten on this one - I don't think we should build an academy with our first GS. Our slider just doesn't make it worth it.

 

[Duckweed]

The only session I missed to comment is the last set. Mystyfly surely noticed that I have been busy in hosting my own thread in S&T forum (~30 hours for play, report, and response) and a lots of discussions going on the new SGOTM10. Also there's not much thing to comment on the last set, I basically agree on Rusten's plan and the major divergence there is how to do with 1st GS, which I don't see much difference of ways to use it. I will surely respond if Rusten requested a vote. So it really surprised me why Mystyfly criticized my participation. How many posts and how often are needed to demonstrate that you really participate?

Pretty tired and won't have much time to look at the game in this weekend. So if Dirk has time, please take it over.

 

[Sealot]

I knew Deity AI's are pretty smart, but damn, now they're even psychologically infiltrating your minds to create chaos and mayhem.

 

[mystyfly]

As I said duckweed I probably chose too harsh words.

I have no idea whatsoever what you're doing (be it RL or CFC); I'm in the army and my time only suffices for the SG. If you're busy, please say so, that's no problem, just not responding at all is what I don't like. I repeat, I didn't mean to argue with you.

 

[Duckweed]

The only reason why I asked you those questions is simple. Is there any rule in this SG? If yes, Did I broke 1st? If the answer to any of the question is not, please don't put forward any unfair criticism. If you really want to urge me to participate more, It'll make more sense to me if I see a remind during the discussion of a session as what Ras did and I responded right away. Without asking and giving me any chance to explain, your post in the beginning of my session to me is nothing more than an unfair and rude criticism. I'd like active discussion in SG too, but personally I won't blame anyone.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Duckweed, I can take over, i'll play tonight or tomorrow. I looked at the save, Rusten's plan seems good. About settled GS vs academy, settled GS = 6 * 1.25 = 7.5 extra bpt. Academy is 0.5 * 6 = 3 extra bpt at 0% science rate. But science rate isn't going to stay at 0%. I'm not too fond of settling GS's, i'd prefer to bulb with the first , build a an academy with the second in this case.

 

[Dirk1302]

I see the first GS has already been settled. Drama prereqs philo. Since the second GS is 27 turns away now there is no need to have the prereqs up so early. I suggest we switch research to currency which we'll get in 12 turns. Apart from the extra trade routes which are huge with 8 cities we can now sell techs and resources meaning we'll be able to up the slider also we can switch science to wealth upping the slider even more. There is a downside to currency, it's possible AC researches it, even then drama wouldn't be enough to trade for it so we'd have to put research turns into it anyway.

Looking at the save i think we can follow Rusten's plan massing GS's under caste system. It won't be difficult to reach col after currency. Switching to cottages for a somewhat slower build up would also work since we have so much land already but isn't as exciting.

I think alpha should be traded to sailing without myst. AC will trade for a long time but we will surely have a better trade deal available with Monty in the future if we don't trade for myst now.It might be a good idea to wait with the sailing trade, if Monty doesn't research alpha before we research currency we may be able to get a bunch of gold. It's easily checked, once Monty doesn't give iw for alpha the trade for sailing should be made. Not sure about this since we probably get some better traderoutes immed with trading now.

 

[shyuhe]

Looking at the map, sailing may not help right now. We need to scout the fog away from the tiles south of Tenochtitlan to open up access to AC via coastal routes I think, unless he's scouted them for us (can't tell). So maybe it's better to hold off on trading alphabet for now?

Currency is a good tech but doesn't that make us go currency -- col -- philo bulb? Not that I object, but it's going to push off our bulb for quite a bit I think.

 

[Dirk1302]

It's 27 turns to the next bulb, can't really speed that up right now. I think we'll have col by then. In our situation currency is huge as we're basically climbing out of an early rush like dip.

I didn't know about better trade routes with sailing for sure either. There's no barb settlements blocking. Looking at the resource screen we're not connected and i believe (not 100% sure) this follows the same rules as traderoutes . So i think holding off on the sailing deal is ok. We'll need an extra boat to scout more imo, need to watch out for barb galleys though.

Edit:
Well maybe we can speed up the bulb by building parthenon or rushing to lit and plunking down the GL/NE. But this 'll take time too so it won't speedup the first bulb that much and it does nothing for our economy. If we were to go this way we may include myst in the alpha deal.Frankly i don't think this is a very good plan.

 

[Rusten]

Settled GS gives 1 hammer.

 

[Dirk1302]

That's useful too. And it certainly helps with teching atm. I don't think i would have done it but i should have said so earlier. What are your feelings about the techpath?

 

[shyuhe]

I would tech currency with hopes for selling techs for $$ with Monty.

 

[Rusten]

I briefly considered drama -> music. We can assume that the 3 AIs we know of won't beat us there so that leaves 3. In a perfect world we'd get the GA, but chances aren't great. However, GA or not, music will be good trade fodder with all 3 AIs we know of.

 

[Dirk1302]

I think it'll take too long for the GA drama takes 10 turns already. We'll progress somewhat but music is probably going to take at least 10 turns as well good easily be longer. It's good trade fodder but if we miss the GA currency will be a much better choice imo since it really gets the empire going.

 

[obsolete]

Alright, popping onto this thread again to see what's up. I'm tired, but did a quick look at the save. So here's some of my newbie thoughts...

You can trade alpha to Monte for IW. I suggest you do this immediately. With all the rediculous land you have, you're bound to pop a few iron deposites. This not only will boost some production, but you can trade-rape for all you want with your two brothers. Furthermore, Romans are losing the war. And after Monte is done with him, he has no choice but to trounce back on you with all that extra power. With iron you can let Romans get their Pratts online and prevent any vassaling.

There is a counter argument to all this though... Romans ended up building the lighthouse. And right now it's useless to him practically. He has no foreign trade routes. If you connect to him, his floodgates will spring open. He has far more to gain than you do, so it's your call. At least he wont get over-seas bonus.

Summing it all up.. I think I'd rather open up the gates with Romans... it is possible you may WANT his tech speed to increase a little, because who knows how fast the pace is going on the other continent(s)? In my expereince, he's not that fast a techer anyway. Especially during times of war periods.

Anyhow, it's a shame no pyramids with the stone in BFC. You could have had an absolute SE-PowerHouse right now

 

[shyuhe]

If only we didn't have Monty knocking on our door.

I'm not opposed to alpha-IW but I'm not sure it's necessary at this point. Getting our long-term economy up is more pressing, hence the interest in sailing. But if we tech currency, we'll be better served getting cash from Monty for alpha than just IW.

 

[Dirk1302]

Obsolete brings up some good points for discussion but...

- Is AC losing the war against Monty? haven't really checked in the save. Monty is a bit bigger than AC but i doubt he can make much headway without cats. Still the idea to trade iron to AC as a way of influencing the war and getting good return is a good one. I don't have the save at hand btw so i don't know if Monty is missing iron or the tech IW.

- Indeed AC will profit if we open up trade with him. He won't get more than 8 traderoutes from our 8 cities but 4 of these will end up in his capital. Question is, do we want our neighbours to tech fast or slow.

If they tech fast we won't be so much behind when meeting the others
But if they tech slow they'll fall easily later.

At this point i think AC teching faster is to our advantage. Later on AC will get routes anyway.

 

[obsolete]

I'm not sure if Monte's being bigger counts as much But the fact is, despite AC has more cities than Monte, AC is still lagging behind in the ranking. However, he is soon to plant another city down south, so that may change things.

If Brennus went into some dagger mode and his units are spent, that may just be a fake war, meaning AC is just doing a 1 vs 1 thing for now, so it's possible things may just end in a stale-mate.

Anyhow, after taking a careful look again, it seems Monte actually does have a source of iron. For some silly reason it does not show a re-source bubble, but mark my words. I see a flat-land mine in his BFC, which looks like it can only mean Iron.

The military advisors seems rather buggy as well, it doesn't even list axes or swords for Monte as possible units. I don't get it???

As I understand, it's only because of the buggy military advisor that we even knew of AC fighting a war vs Brennus? What a silly interface..

 

[Dirk1302]

I think the mil advisor wouldn't show axes/swords if we haven't got iw. We're not supposed to know and wouldn't know if we hadn't seen (and fought monty's jags) or in this case we also hadn't seen the flatland iron. I doubt the mil advisor goes so far as to determine that you (the player) already have inferred that there's iron. Don't know if this is the reason but i can live with it.

So this is how we know Brennus is in the game? I've seen that posted before, did a quick check yesterday but couldn't see him as worst enemy. Has there been an AC/Bren war (you can indeed see that and yes this is a bug).Is it still ongoing and have i missed it.