shyuhe
Deity
So many hypotheticals!Since we're playing for SS, levee will be very much in play. So I'm more inclined to settle on a river in this case, all things being equal.
Deity challengers
- Thread starter RRRaskolnikov
- Start date
So many hypotheticals!Since we're playing for SS, levee will be very much in play. So I'm more inclined to settle on a river in this case, all things being equal.
Grabbing food resources revealed by scouting east would mean moving off the river (in addition to losing a turn). We'll get it in our BFC regardless of whether we've scouted it by moving 1ne+1e. You have a point with 4 movement of the scout though.
I still think there's a much higher chance of the food being in our original BFC, but neither option is bad.
I still think there's a much higher chance of the food being in our original BFC, but neither option is bad.
Because the map script adds 4 resources to every capital. We only see 1 so far meaning there are 3 more.
I don't mind much either way though -- not a big fan of scout/settling discussions ala ALC. We should just pick one.
Can take our abandoned game for example. I opened it in WB now and:
Germany -> 4
Spain -> 4
Inca -> 2 + 3 seafood. IIRC seafood counts 2/3 so this too = 4
Egypt -> 2 resources and 3 seafood -> 4
Byzantium -> 4
Carthage -> 3 -- something happened there.
As you can see 5 out of 6 AIs started with 4 resources in their BFC. It is the general rule.
Germany -> 4
Spain -> 4
Inca -> 2 + 3 seafood. IIRC seafood counts 2/3 so this too = 4
Egypt -> 2 resources and 3 seafood -> 4
Byzantium -> 4
Carthage -> 3 -- something happened there.
As you can see 5 out of 6 AIs started with 4 resources in their BFC. It is the general rule.
I think this is due to the balance of capital distance and the average distribution of resources. I believed there are average of 2 resource per 20 tiles/1 city (Have not counted yet). The capital site is chosen for above average, so 4 make sense, but I don't know whether it's because the program adds later.
Dirk1302
Deity
@duckweed, played isolated deity once, won easily but i was playing Darius and had a fantastic island. Was some game rolo put up for christmas where you could pick your leader. I also saw Rusten win a good isolated map without any problems once.
I played rolo's games a lot on immortal and i only lost once with Toku on a hell hole of an island where only the capital was more or less acceptable. Some 2 years ago, i'm definitely a better player now, i remember then that i found isolated significantly easier as long as your island is ok. Once you catch up being isolated is just an advantage, no need to worry too much about military, your diplo is ok most of the time because they hate each other already, all intercontinental traderoutes. Often there are more ais isolated, these are easy picking and you don't have to worry about their cities not pulling their weigh due to culture after you've conquered them. It'll not always be so of course, if there's a runaway ai there's less you can do than when not isolated since you learn about it too late. I may try the abandoned game as a walkthrough in the future, too busy right now.
About this game, moving east is very risky since there could well be a food resource in the west and it costs time to move east. So i suggest scout checks west on the hill, if there's nothing we can waste 1 turn to settle on the river, otherwise i'd settle in place. A levee is nice but it's still rather far off.
I played rolo's games a lot on immortal and i only lost once with Toku on a hell hole of an island where only the capital was more or less acceptable. Some 2 years ago, i'm definitely a better player now, i remember then that i found isolated significantly easier as long as your island is ok. Once you catch up being isolated is just an advantage, no need to worry too much about military, your diplo is ok most of the time because they hate each other already, all intercontinental traderoutes. Often there are more ais isolated, these are easy picking and you don't have to worry about their cities not pulling their weigh due to culture after you've conquered them. It'll not always be so of course, if there's a runaway ai there's less you can do than when not isolated since you learn about it too late. I may try the abandoned game as a walkthrough in the future, too busy right now.
About this game, moving east is very risky since there could well be a food resource in the west and it costs time to move east. So i suggest scout checks west on the hill, if there's nothing we can waste 1 turn to settle on the river, otherwise i'd settle in place. A levee is nice but it's still rather far off.
Cause of BTS All-forest One-resource Starts: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=252429
You can read more about the starting location there. The problem is this:
You can read more about the starting location there. The problem is this:
You are right about the 1 food resource, but unless the starting location is really good already you will get 4. We aren't forest spammed, and our location doesn't seem all that great, so I rate our chances of having 4 resources as big. If we only have the cow then we would have forests everywhere.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I think that's the safest move... If everyone is OK with this (Duckweed?
), Rusten could play the first few turns (I can't tonight, and we have to start this game one day right? beside I have played a few yesterday)...I think the major difference between Rusten and me is that whether the chance of food resource is higher to the west. I agree that there's more chance of resource or food resource in the two tiles west than any other tiles east since those two tiles are in the chosen capital BFC. However, is the chance of a resource in the 2 tiles more than that of more than 10 tiles uncovered to east? If the answer is no or not much higher, then plus the levee and those extra commerce from more river tiles. What will cause you to choose a non riverside capital?
I think that's the safest move... If everyone is OK with this (Duckweed?
This is a team game and I am also a good team player in reality. So I have no problem to play the way of the majority members agreed.
I think you have not read our post carefully. Your two counter points has been addressed in our previous post and I expressed my worry of lost a food resource to the west in the 1st post. One turn lost is not a big deal to grab a better capital and I think you should understand this well. Levee will come much earlier in deity and it is huge since we aim for a space race win.
Many players win immortal LHC constantly still feel difficult in normal setting deity game. I mentioned my different feeling of immortal and deity isolated start.
If you have a good start, why do you think it is easier to win in isolated start than non-isolated? Moreover, as I mentioned, the diplomatic win is usually the only choice in isolated game, compare to non-isolated game, where you can usually win in any type. Which one is easier?
Remember that this game is set to space race only. Then again, have you tried or seen a space race win in a deity game of isolated start? Will you say it is easier than non-isolated start?
-I think the chance of there being food in those 2 tiles is bigger than 10 distant tiles.
-Leevee won't be in play for a long time.
-There's also the other 2 resources to gain by settling in place.
-We lose a turn if we move east.
-If we decide to move further east after scouting on the second turn the cows will be up 1 turn later.
-We have many riverside tiles to boost the early game in place -- we don't need to move for that. 2 riverside grassland mines and 1 riverside grassland. Due to the early game happiness cap that's all you need. With CRE/IMP we won't be working cottages early anyway -- at least not with these riverside grassland hills.
Even if there's food both places moving east won't be that much better (if at all).
-Leevee won't be in play for a long time.
-There's also the other 2 resources to gain by settling in place.
-We lose a turn if we move east.
-If we decide to move further east after scouting on the second turn the cows will be up 1 turn later.
-We have many riverside tiles to boost the early game in place -- we don't need to move for that. 2 riverside grassland mines and 1 riverside grassland. Due to the early game happiness cap that's all you need. With CRE/IMP we won't be working cottages early anyway -- at least not with these riverside grassland hills.
Not that huge really. We can find another city to be our production capital by the time we need to build space parts -- this is miles ahead.
Even if there's food both places moving east won't be that much better (if at all).
--Remember that the guaranteed food tile is there already.
--It'll be used for 50~100 turns
--There's also a possibility of other resources to east.
--Why one turn is that important?
--1F2H for one turn
--In non-isolated start, the capital can grow very fast and will start to benefit from the extra river commerce very soon.
--Agree on this.
Before factory and plant, the movement of palace takes long time and the investment is not trivial.
Dirk1302
Deity
@Duckweed, discussion of starting position has been long and i only glanced over the arguments. Looked at the save and personally i wouldn't want risking a food resource in the west. Levee is nice but i value the food resource more. I used to have a tendency to walk with the settler without having all the info and i often regretted it dearly. So now i tend to settle in place unless there's clearly a better option available.
About the deity iso win, i won space that game. So did Rusten in his game iirc. I admit that i haven't played enough deity iso games to be sure but based on experiences in the immortal games i don't think iso deity is more difficult than normal deity as long as the island is good. Being backward around 1000 AD isn't as important as being backward around 1800 AD, there's a good catchup window. Also (and i didn't know that when i played those LHC's) with espionage much can be done.The possibility of picking off other weak iso ais tends to be important too in iso games.
About the deity iso win, i won space that game. So did Rusten in his game iirc. I admit that i haven't played enough deity iso games to be sure but based on experiences in the immortal games i don't think iso deity is more difficult than normal deity as long as the island is good. Being backward around 1000 AD isn't as important as being backward around 1800 AD, there's a good catchup window. Also (and i didn't know that when i played those LHC's) with espionage much can be done.The possibility of picking off other weak iso ais tends to be important too in iso games.
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