Deity Fail #4 - Top Tier Saladin [Fractal, STANDARD, all random, no huts & events]

Manco Capac

Friday,13 June,I Collapse
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Mar 1, 2010
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Salutations wannabe deity player (the positive meaning ofc) and experts,

after the third fail installment, Deity Brennus the forever alone, it is time for the fourth installment: Top Tier Saladin!

The standard duration between installments is 15 days.

You embody the solid arabian leader... :D

Description of leader and civilization:

Spoiler :

Awesome starting techs: Wheel and Mysticism.
Mysticism allows SH for fail gold. Oh my GOD! Uh, I meant Oh my Allah!
Wheel is awesome for faster missionaries. Uh, got that.

Madrassa for insanely purifying the despicable GScientist pool and get more religious techs. Why not Theology.

Camel Archers have some retreat power, just like HA's. Hmmm....


Harness yourself to another adventure and comtemplate the starting location!

Starting Location and Settings.
Spoiler :







General properties of this serie:

In general, nothing stands out as evident compared to other hosting games.
But there are tendencies of fractal maps. Large mapsize will be questioned at some point though.
The games are usually tested and should be winnable, thus may offer some fun factor.
Quite often, the leaders in control won't be the greatest of all; I won't make a specific list of the forbidden ones, but the chosen leaders should not offer at all direct cheese strategy like quechua rushes or WC rushes. Ancient times units tend to help a lot over later ones.

Isabella may be forbidden due to her overpowered unit. This always can be revoked though.

Requirements for the save:

Spoiler :

BUFFY or BUG mods.

If you meet some kind of bug where your leader names is stuck in a long list fashion, then press escape, take option, change resolution, refuse to keep the changes permanent and the bug is gone.




Other shadows

Shakabrade - 1850 Space Colony
TMIT - Black hole?
Shulec - Went after HC and HC went after him.
georgeorge - Unknown fate.
Habitus - dislikes deity.


My own shadow:
Wait 15 days. Here.
 

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Move warrior 1SW to see if losing seafood (unlikely unless coast is different to what i expect to worth checking). Then probably SiP for nice production site with 2nd City probably on plain hill to help work cottages + share corn/rice :)

*edit*

Going to try playing this at about 25 turns aday, hopefully then i won't do my usual trick of playing good at start then starting to rush turns messing up badly :p
 
You don't lose seafood 2S of starting warrior, I think. You can place a city on forrested plains hill and still grab that food and it seems there is a place for city south, if needed. SIP seems most reasonable to me, especially because of all those suspicious grassland tiles. Strategic resource in BFC 99%. Wouldn't settle on coast until I know who (if any) and how far neighbours are so I don't screw Engineering bulb.

So many games and so many RL obligations...
 
3S1E is only spot really you'd lose seafood, and only then if 3S1W isn't a land tile. Coastal City would probably share corn/rice + work cottages on riverside if i decided to skip fishing for bulb purposes :)

Played first 25 turns
Spoiler :
Nice capitol with sip, meet HC so far and we seem to be on a peninsula. Could probably block off HC but not sure if maintaince + fact not sure if i'll have troops to defend from barbs with rushing to grab the spot


*edit* Added Save

Spoiler :
Tech path was Agr - Mining - BW, Worker did Corn, Rice, has just moved and put 1T into road but is planning on moving to a grass hill to mine. Settler in queue of cap has no hammers in and I think I'll probably carry on building warriors for spawn busting. If copper pops then a quick axe - settler will likely be enough
 

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3S1E is only spot really you'd lose seafood, and only then if 3S1W isn't a land tile. Coastal City would probably share corn/rice + work cottages on riverside if i decided to skip fishing for bulb purposes :)

Played first 25 turns
Spoiler :
Nice capitol with sip, meet HC so far and we seem to be on a peninsula. Could probably block off HC but not sure if maintaince + fact not sure if i'll have troops to defend from barbs with rushing to grab the spot

I like this format. If you could post a save, then we might see if something is wrong or a good move. Dunno...
You have good chances to win it, be assured.

Spoiler :

Once my game is going to be upped, unfortunately, there won't be any comparison as I gambled a little in this one. I noticed the high number of hills in the north, so I went north for pure production capital. And I was highly rewarded for such a move...

Usually I tend to try either pure commerce start or production capital. I don't like hybrid of a capital...so that was my justification for north.
And the possibility to settle elsewere than the PH to get the clams...

 
Didn't open the save yet.
So those forrests are actually on hills. I am always sad when settling on forrest (case with SIP) cause I really really like to chop. If you have enough forrest early, you can always make a good rush, and if you do, you win most of the games. So it's 2N.

Unlike you, Tachy, I tend to settle commercial or mixed capitals because of better Buro efficiency (Bureaucracy doesn't give +50% base hamsters). But that is long term play and it is actually no better than pure production early potential. With this start, you can only go for production.
 
I got BUG installed but still can't load the save because I don't have BUFFY...?
 
Welcome to Deity Fun IV.
Really glad people gives it a try.

The solution to make the game runs is either install BUFFY or follow what GKey did to make it run while using BUG mod.

That is...this and that. I think.

BTW, I insist you should try this one because *barely spoiler*
Spoiler :
your neighbour won't rush you before a long time. Easy deity map I think.
.
 
Interesting game Tachy. I played until 880 AD, until the tide turned against me.

Spoiler :
I am a peaceful player. This type of play seems to suffer on deity. This got me in trouble again. There is alot of good land to take... and I tried. All along I saw a crapload of archers. They were all saying, "come kick my ass!" But the call from the juicy land was "Take me!" So I took it and left the archers alone. And I paid for it. I got a no fist declaration. I'll ask about it later when it doesn't spoil so much.
 
@Shulec

Spoiler :
Assuming you just met 1 AI at this point and that was Capac in basically semi iso, you won't see the Fist with only one AI. That's what can make semi-iso tricky with certain leaders. Have to keep an eye on their units. Another way to look at it is you would not be aware of WHEOORN mode as there is no 2nd AI to check it in the trade screen.

I gave this a shot and did not realize until much later that Capac had met at least 1 AI with border pop across ocean and probably more. Absolutely started blowing me away in tech. I could never get an opposing tech to trade except for Aesthetics after building TGL. I had 8 or 9 solid cities - even beating Capac to the nice double fish/double silver city to make the seal, but the lack of tech trading just make this impossible for me.

I probably made a mistake not going Alpha early...always a tricky call in semi-iso (well semi for the human in this case)

I'm guessing Tachy settled up north from her post above and got copper in the BFC, which means for her that Capac would have a short life :lol: Or just cripple/extort him (man, he had some juicy resources up north)

If one was luck to get a full east<>west block one might get to meet that AI first. I think it was Boudi or Izzy but stopped at that point.


@tachy
Spoiler :
So did you copper-rape Capac? There was some relatively strong land here but I dug myself a big hole with poor scouting.
 
To T50 2000BC

Spoiler :
Finished BW, copper near planned city at pigs+floodplains (3rd ring), as trying to decide if i should move the city location HC settled 1NW of my planned site so I moved across to get a good production site.
Having seen Sheep+Pigs+2 Cows I went AH next and after that Pottery to get the capitol going ready for Buro.
Lost afew spawn busting/exploring warriors, but with 1 axe and a 2nd on way I'll be fine for barbs from now on


Should be able to play next 25 turns tomorrow, mis-microed atleast twice that i spotted wasting some worker turns.
 

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@Habitus
Glad I to see you are still playing.

Spoiler :

For the first checkpoint:

I saw you were about to start a settler at pop 4. Now, by experience, I'll always attempt to get my first settler out once I pass pop3. It is AZ rule of thumb. Quite unfortunately for you, HC got before you the nice horses city...but a couple of axes+spear should do the job...but expect third cultural ring due to his UB granary.

Why pop 3:
1) You do not get more than 1 really good tile. Rice is not even good or better than hill for settler production.
2) Warrior the second should have being out with a nice timing to pop 3. But you did nicely for pop4.
3) Starting this earlier allows the player to beat the AI, sometimes, to a settlement.

Still you have beated HC to pig, but you chose copper instead. Then forcing into HC is a must to get access to such nice settlement. Even though just for one city.

But you are not forced to do it if you want to trade with HC later. But notice how far cities are placed...which means garrison supply is harder for him Machu Picchu.

You initial warrior should have gone that far because barb attacking at T40 needs all its forces to fogbust.

Second checkpoint :

Although I'm really approving the city location near wheat, my fears is led by HC could troll you putting a city next to wheat or 1S of the lake and beating the AI in culture is hard, I tell you.

Everything looks nice. Writing after Pottery is correct. Oracle shot is over, no time anymore even for lucky shots.

 
Interesting game Tachy. I played until 880 AD, until the tide turned against me.

Spoiler :
I am a peaceful player. This type of play seems to suffer on deity. This got me in trouble again. There is alot of good land to take... and I tried. All along I saw a crapload of archers. They were all saying, "come kick my ass!" But the call from the juicy land was "Take me!" So I took it and left the archers alone. And I paid for it. I got a no fist declaration. I'll ask about it later when it doesn't spoil so much.

Wow, surprise, surprise. Glad one of fellow HoF player joins in for learning true hard random deity.

Thanks both of you for making me know no fist can appear on semi-isolation. Bug?

But still,
Spoiler :
HC can only get really late iron or copper supply, so the necessary condition to WHEEON can not be satisfied.
 
@tachy
Spoiler :
So did you copper-rape Capac? There was some relatively strong land here but I dug myself a big hole with poor scouting.

Spoiler :

Yeah. I'm getting better at axe rush. And now starting to think it is less rarer than people thinks given copper in capital ofc. And under condition, you see the AI lacking the resource.
I really didn't know I would be so rewarded moving my capital to full production city.

Yes, I went full isolation after that and was terrified of my choice. At least, HC built for the Mids (I noticed this before wardec). Really good to get out of bad deity isolation.

Yes, Boudica is to the west, but a crap barb city twarted my contact with her...but it was for the best because my guess she's going into WHEEON mode to me quite fast and once Astro, bam wardec.

A very important action to do on fractal map (that is not necessary on pangaea), is to get a chariot Flank I and Sentry I. This allows more sight over waters and just as Boudica, some contact to kill isolation, which is the worst of normal deity game.
 
Good trick on every fractal maps:

If horses are available, always try to train a Flank I & Sentry chariot and explore near all coasts.
This sometimes lead to unexpected contacts.
 
@Tachy

Spoiler :
I normally do 3 pop settler too, but had next to no warriors to spawnbust route to settle (initial warrior was healing pretty far away ), I ended up growing to 6 and whipping it so i could get warriors for spawn busting. Delay may of cost me the site but as you said pointy stick diplo can get it back :)

Biggest mistake probably was the initial scouting rather than spawn busting :)
 
@Tachy

Spoiler :
I normally do 3 pop settler too, but had next to no warriors to spawnbust route to settle (initial warrior was healing pretty far away), I ended up growing to 6 and whipping it so i could get warriors for spawn busting. Delay may of cost me the site but as you said pointy stick diplo can get it back :)

Spoiler :


No problemo. Everyone has his own plan and HC is a good neighbour once HR is on. But keep in mind he still can wardec on PLEASED.

EDIT: pointy stick diplo= war. Oops misunderstood you. Still have your way. And HC got a nice SH for you...hmmm
 
Played to 1360 BC but not really satisfied with my position...maybe someone can give hints what I should have done differently.

Spoiler :

Skipped Bronze Working to work the mines instead of whipping, may have been a mistake. Made a number of Warriors to fogbust before my first Settler and had to settle the second city sub-optimally to get it at all before an AI settler...so no horses for me.

There's a good amount of land to be settled, but with lots of production I'm thinking about not settling the seafood and going for Engineering bulbs.
 

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Hmm I'll play this a little maybe. A little rusty at Deity, and this leader is ze awful. So losing is to be expected! Never mind it doesn't want me to play. :(
 
Spoiler :
Settled 2N for more hills. Didn't bother improving rice until later. Improved mines instead.
Settler at level 4 because a lot of warriors were needed to deal with barb problem. Settled Horse--Pigs. Then built some axes to deal with barbs and settler to settle on wine. It is then when I realized HC had no metal. Trained many axes and hoped I wasn't late with rush.

Spoiler :
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I didn't kill HC but teched Alphabet so I could trade peace for his technologies. I got Monarchy, Currency and something else not too small. Then I stole calendar, Iron working and Archery with my spies to make use of all those accumulated EPs and then I killed him.

From then, it was all about setting up an economy without foreign trade routes, which hurts. I made settling islands for better internal trade routes a priority and so I did. Settling each island city raised my net commerce. I was in Hereditary rule and grew 4 size 15+ cities before 500AD. Gilgamesh found me first, Sury followed and soon after all of them. I teched Education so I could trade it for something since astronomy doesn't do much good when AIs are in mercantilism. Then beelined astronomy. It was all about researching stuff you can trade around. Never traded for cheap techs and my WFYABTA started to kick in really late. When I switched to free market and representation and teched corporation, my economy skyrocketed and I was totally catching up. Founded sushi in Damascus. Got to computers first and built the Internet and then went to space.

Spoiler :
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Spoiler :
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