Deity Hatty

[Anysense]

Hi folks! I've started civing again about a week ago and after a few games want to share one. Last time it was Toku squezed between Zara and GK with only plains cows and FPs for food. I could hardly expand to more than 5 cities but of course BiC managed to overexpand. I learned something from that so this time I chose a good leader and we even happend to have a good food resource!
Starting position.

Spoiler :

The save is made with BUG mod 4.4
I nearly forgot to mention the game options. This is pangaea, NO VASSAL STATES, everything else is standart.

 

[lymond]

hmm..don't really like sip here..i'd want to move inland.. I'd be inclined to move warrior 1S to get view there (looks like hill 2 S of him. Settler could move 1 tile to elies to check for hidden seafood. If none, hop on forest 1E, and settle 1S of pigs next turn. If seafood, settle on elephants for faster start. tech Hunt>AH

Spoiler :

 

[Anysense]

I was thinking along the same lines though I felt more tempted with faster start rather than see food. It may be worth checking the coast for see food, depends on what the warrior will reveal. I mean I would not like to have only pigs for food in the capital. Also I noticed that the water to the east is not a fresh water lake, that probably means that the land to the northeast is a peninsula which can be easily secured.
Why hunting? We already have agriculture for AH. Might be worth backfilling later for an early boost too happy cap before starting on alpha/aesthetics.

 

[Fippy]

Hunting speeds up AH, and river Jumbos are a good early tile.
Together that would pay back for hunting with it's extra commerce.

Problem can be timing on worker & AH thou, but if a worker takes 15 turns and then moving 1 on pigs hill = 16..
possibly enuf, did not test thou
It's best not selecting techs until turn 5 for that, with getting a small bonus when meeting AIs who already have hunting.

 

[Anysense]

Played to 1880 BC. The map seems quite playable.
If you want to play don't open spoiler.
2640 BC

Spoiler :

I moved warrior 1S, saw cows and settled on ivory. The capital has rather poor prospects in the long term but in near future it will make an excellent settler/worker pump. Went straight for AH and finished it a turn after worker reached the hill with pigs (he spent that turn building road). Then teched fishing and halted research for a while; its unclear what I will need to get before starting on alpha/aesthetics.
I thought of WC ruch but it does seem to make much sense here. Horses are a bit too far away and there is plenty of room to expand peacefully. But certainly I want to make a few WC just to be safe.
Settled the second city on PH with rice and clam. Seems to be a good place and it blocks Elizabeth as well. Connected cities because worker did not have much to do anyway then there is a chance that I will have foreign trade routes soon. I planned to settle the third city 1E from horses, another PH city with horses and fish which will be connected when borders pop up.

 

[Lain]

@Anysense

Spoiler :

Early 2nd city looks good. Not clear where your commerce will come from though. I would grab the stone next and build Pyramids. Actually, this would have been my 2nd city here (and immediately a 3rd to block Elizabeth like you did, yup). Being creative, you could grab the ivory too. Arabia might settle on the borders of your capital soon. It's not like you can avoid border tensions anyway. And Saladin is not Shaka. I would still try for the stone. At worst you would get enough failgold to reach Alpha/Aesthetics.

If there was no stone, I would probably go for the Great Lighthouse. Though it is a bit cheesy. Probably have a lot of time for that on a map like this.

 

[Pangaea]

When making a different post, I noticed that AbsoluteZero has played Deity Hatty recently, so you may want to check out that: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqyBKiHbM__Eu7LuADb1VxXEegeMq4bar

Spoiler :

Not in love with this map. Loads of deserts around your capital is never good news, as it totally messed up expansion, overlap and distance costs, especially on Deity. The good news is there are many happiness resources you can potentially grab, although most are Calendar-bound. Given the lateness of his visit, I assume Wang Kon is over to the east, so that peninsula isn't entirely free to grab once you blocked off Elizabeth. You should have decent time, though, and the land there looks good-ish. Being Creative also means you're not as bound by inner-ring resources.

To the east and north you have 2x sheep + 2x spices. Might want to grab both those spots. If you settle 3W1N of the elephant, you will lock off that tiny northern peninsula, and hopefully there is seafood by that 2nd sheep. Ofc, you may want to include the oasis if you settle in that direction early. Going for the stone seems risky to me, especially if the goal is Mids, a mighty expensive build, even with stone, but if there is good food, then the location is good anyway, and you can plop down some cottages for more early commerce, since the capital is commerce starved.

You already have a mighty fine weapon of Elepults through the ivory, so in the medium term you have a deadly weapon that works very well even against Deity AIs. But in the shorter term you may want to grab the horse, as you indicated, even if it's pretty far away and maintenance costs on Deity can be murderous. The what and lake looks like a decent spot too.

 

[Anysense]

Played to 825 BC

Spoiler :

I did not think much about Mids. And the place is bad: deserts, jungles and no food. The lake 1S of the stone isn't freshwater so there can be some seafood but I would not bet on it. I seriously considered GLH but there is no way to build it quickly, just not enough commerce. That water to the east turned out to be big lake and I just don't know whether cities at the coast of inland sea get extra traderoutes from the GLH. May be I just don't like to build early wonders but it nearly always seems to be better to build other stuff like settlers, workers etc.
Anyway I could not build any wonders in this particular game because Wang Kon started plotting around 1600 BC and DoWed me in 1440 BC. I got lucky in the beginning and killed his first stack of 6 swords/axes at the cost of only 3 WC's and a warrior which lured the stack into the open field. So far I destroyed 8 swords, 4 axes, 1 spear, 2 charriots and a scout and that you know what? That bloodthirsty bastard still does not want peace! I don't know what he is playing on, he gained nothing and is already at the bottom of the score table (I'm 6th ).
Naturally that war hurt my economy. I've finished libraries in all cities except Heliopolis. Partly beacause they are cheap for creative leader, but mostly because I don't have anything else to build. It seems that now I have sufficient numbers of WC's and can start building settlers and workers again, though there is a chance that WK will appear soon with a dozen units stack. I will have a GS in 7 turns (bulb math?) and finish researching aesthetics by about that time so it's not really desperate. The second sheep/spice spot is secured and there is a very nice spot with fish and silver. With wheat included I can expand to 8 cities and hopefully grab crabs with furs.
Perhaps I will just start over. Without early DoW could do much better. GLH would be great here, and if I miss it then at least failgold will help to fund research.

 

[Jarno]

When making a different post, I noticed that AbsoluteZero has played Deity Hatty recently, so you may want to check out that: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqyBKiHbM__Eu7LuADb1VxXEegeMq4bar

I've watched the videos, it's actually not this Deity Hatty but NC CLXXX. And I would only recommend watching these vids if you like to scream to your monitor and curse AZ for making stupid mistakes. I find his previous series, although often played very fast and sloppy, better than this one.

It seems that now I have sufficient numbers of WC's and can start building settlers and workers again, though there is a chance that WK will appear soon with a dozen units stack.

Why building settlers if you can build more WC and take a look at the cities WK has built for you? Silver/Fish, Wheat, Crab/Furs can later be backfilled.

 

[Anysense]

Why building settlers if you can build more WC and take a look at the cities WK has built for you? Silver/Fish, Wheat, Crab/Furs can later be backfilled.

Because WC's are not that great against spears. There is also huge difference between rushing unprepared AI and the one which is already at war and pumping units. I played a bit more, finished aesthetics no one would give me alpha for it, but I managed to get math and bulbed alpha. WK went berserk and refused to take 4 techs for peace treaty, he wanted a city. Didn't really expect this. I could simply build a crappy city on his border and offer it for peace. It's a shame this simple idea did not occur to me in time.
I've just tried and it did not work, he does not want a crappy city even with a bunch of techs in addition.
He eventually captured Elephantine. No idea how to catch up without GS to bulb philosophy, so I'd rather start over and do something different.

 

[Fippy]

Difficult helping what could be done without a save..

 

[Anysense]

I uploaded two saves in case anyone want to look into details or try to handle the situation himself.
1640 BC is when WK began plotting. Don't know what could be done here. May be archery? Archers on hills can hold off hordes of axes/swords until they brought catapults.
In 825 BC there is a short break, the latest save where all is not lost yet.

 

[Pangaea]

Those early DoWs are tough to handle, especially on Deity. It's one of the things I meant in the above post, about some games simply being unwinnable on Deity, because the game throws scenarios at you that you can't get on top of. Like here, even if you managed to beat off Wang and get peace, it's possible it put you so far behind the pace that there was no coming back. Good luck with a do-over, and hopefully you won't be DoWed early.

Now you have the benefit of knowing where the horse is, so you could plan for a quick WC rush if you want. Those things are nasty beasts to fight off if you catch an AI without metals.

Sorry to hear AZ made howlers in that series, I've not watched it myself. He plays very quick to accommodate viewers, which also tends to mean mistakes here and there. Depending on skill level, there is much to learn from him, though, and he should be applauded just for posting so many Deity games tbh.

 

[Fippy]

Ty, too much focus on war chariots.
If you trade for copper and build some Axes, Wang cannot take your city and you can continue with other plans (settling more land, or what you had in mind).
With a hill city, you want anything cept..war chariots for defense
@Pangea while that can be true, it's not here. This early DoW can be annoying, but easy to defend with some adjustments.

 

[Jarno]

Sorry to hear AZ made howlers in that series, I've not watched it myself. He plays very quick to accommodate viewers, which also tends to mean mistakes here and there. Depending on skill level, there is much to learn from him, though, and he should be applauded just for posting so many Deity games tbh.

True, maybe I was a bit too harsh on him. He hadn't played Civ4 in a while so he was a bit rusty. I definitely learned a lot from his videos!

@Anysense Too bad things didn't work out in this game. Hopefully your next game will be better!

 

[Pangaea]

Can't load the saves because BUG isn't in customAssets, but I'll trust you on that. Can't see metal from the above few pictures (except in Wang-land, which it might have been an idea to try to pillage), but even without it, archers behind a wall on a hill can get you pretty darn far against an aggressor -- as we found out plenty about in the Always War games maybe a year back.

Often there is something to be done, but sometimes not. Like when I ended up next to Genghis and Shaka and some other nasty chaps, and barely managed to cram out a second city before space was gone, and they declared on me. Fun times

 

[Anysense]

You saw no copper because I did not have BW though Charly wanted to sell copper. The only tricky moment was that he was plotting at that time but DoWed Celts a few turns later. In 825 BC about 300 beakers left to aesthetics, not a lot more than to tech BW. So I finished aesth and get BW through trades whipped a few axes/spears/archers just in time.

Spoiler :

Now that Korean aggressors are at bay... I've just finished drama, but can't get anything for it right now. Perhaps someone will trade monarchy if I put a few beakers into it. Another opportunity is Boudica ready to sell calendar but missing monarchy. Only Mansa has got philosophy. In 5 turns I will bulb philosophy, not monopoly but still I can get a lot of stuff for it.

Spoiler :

Fish+silver and wheat are not used yet. Should be ready to settle both once I got currency. Not sure how to develop cities, they have very few good tiles.

Spoiler :

 

[Fippy]

CoL from Mansa seems tempting, if you could get it for Drama after some beakers put in.
No surprise that no other AI has it yet, no priority for them after Confu was founded.

 

[Anysense]

Can't load the saves because BUG isn't in customAssets, but I'll trust you on that. Can't see metal from the above few pictures (except in Wang-land, which it might have been an idea to try to pillage), but even without it, archers behind a wall on a hill can get you pretty darn far against an aggressor -- as we found out plenty about in the Always War games maybe a year back.

Often there is something to be done, but sometimes not. Like when I ended up next to Genghis and Shaka and some other nasty chaps, and barely managed to cram out a second city before space was gone, and they declared on me. Fun times

Reminds me of my first deity game than I got double DoW from Toku and Shaka. Archers played a big role in that war, they killed Shaka's stack of 20+ units. Great guys archers
Edit: uploaded the latest save.

 

[Anysense]

CoL from Mansa seems tempting, if you could get it for Drama after some beakers put in.
No surprise that no other AI has it yet, no priority for them after Confu was founded.

It took four turns to get CoL from Mansa. That turned out a good idea, thanks. It was a bit slower than getting monarchy but CoL had much higher trading value. WK finaly took 3 techs for peace (25 BC), next turn I traded philosophy for CS and switched to bureaucracy immediatly. So 103 beakers per turn at 1AD, pathetic though not unexpected.

Spoiler :

I got nearly everything I need from trades, selfteched only literature. GL was still available, only I and Charlemagne had marble at this time so I decided to try and build it. With some overflow from forge, 3 chops and 2 pop whip I finished it in 5 turns (50 AD). With the GL and NE Heliopolis makes a decent GP farm city.

Spoiler :

Also got some gold from trades, 220 failgold from the Parthenon. Planned to get some failgold from MoM as well, but as no one bothered with it I finished it myself. It's good to have a hammer-heavy capital, it can accidentally build some useful wonders.
I rsearched paper, started on education and halfbulbed it with the next GS. Still no one has paper and Mansa is researching engineering, looks like I have good chances to lib nationalism.

Spoiler :

With a few chops Thebes can build Taj Mahal in ~10 turns. Heliopolis will produce another GP in 6 turns. If I start a GA with him then it will end at about the same time when the TM is built, i.e. 2 consequtive golden ages or 3 if I want to. Probably 4 if I can produce 5 GP's during 3 golden ages which is doable. That could be a game changer.
Until recently only civs in Judaism had theology, that is the Apostolic Palace is likely to be built by one of them. I decided to convert to Judaism, religious victory may be possible. Mansa is in free religion now (was Judaism), he's built Shwedagon Paya.

Spoiler :

Overview