Sampsa's Huge/Epic/Deity/NTT/novassals (+no fail gold)

[sampsa]

Yes, maybe "beatable, probably close to 100% rate with strong play" was not very accurately put. I think it's over 90% though, and the 10% losses come from getting pounded on early. I got declared on only once and it was by an AI with a very weak position (Nap).

Hours of your life will vanish on these settings. One pic of yours all the AI have red fists by their names. You do get some insane stacks but if the AI are busy destroying eachother you can likely ignore their stacks. As you suggest getting peace becomes a lot harder. Once you are up to 30-40 cities when should get easier.

Have you considered any strategies to help unit movements. I think you can set up rally points. Plus queue builds using alt key so you don't need to keep micro builds.

Hours of my life are not worth anything, so no worries. I am not very efficient with rally points and stuff and I'm just way too careful with my empire management. I think I need to improve that to make it bearable.

I don’t think these settings really reward longer term strategy and more your ability to react to opportunities presented by the chaos. It still requires skill - and I can’t really comment on whether it’s more or less skill - but different skills.

Yes, it's more opportunistic and chaotic and definitely requires different skills, which is refreshing.

do you really think the middle of the map is so bad? "Lakes" wraps horizontally so you will always have neighbors east and west. If you're near the north or south edge that's a lot of useless land with lots of useless barbs.

I think corner of the map is easiest, but of course depends on the amount of useless tundra, which might be an issue on Lakes. Again depending on the map layout, but many times on crowded deity maps you will see no barbs at all. It can play quite differently on emperor, but at least you are pretty much guaranteed to win GW if you need it.

 

[Fippy]

Not so bad but with several deity AIs close you can always get unlucky and one starts plotting on you
From my experience corner starts are much more..hmm what word to use, reliable maybe?

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

I’d say that advantages and disadvantages of starting in the middle are something like-

Advantages:

• less likely to have a slower coastal start;
• land quality in at least one direction from cap is more likely to be good;
• more possible targets for breakout war;
• easier/quicker to meet AI for tech discount and trading.

Disadvantages:

• harder to block land;
• more neighbours meaning more border tension and more AIs that can be bribed on you that don’t need to cross the map to attack you;
• barbs can come from multiple directions unless neighbours are very close - which is not good either.

I think as you go up the difficulty the possible advantages of starting in the middle remain but the problems become more acute and, yeah, on deity I’d like a nice corner start where I can adopt my neighbour’s religion and backfill cities when my economy can support them. On lower levels I’d probably prefer being in the middle, possibly just because it’s more fun.

 

[AspiringScholar]

What graphics mod are you using, Sampsa? I like the deeper color palette and especially the water, but maybe it's just my eyes.

Interesting game. I also feel like playing an unmodded (gameplay, that is) BtS game again. Before I started playing RI obsessively a little over a year ago, I could win Monarch with some reliability, but even though the rules are different and more complex, that mod really challenged my play a lot and so I think I'd come back stronger even on the original turf. Maybe I'll try an emperor game and see how it goes.

Also, what are your thoughts specifically about NTT? I find tech trades to be a little too wheedle-y sometimes so their removal is refreshing from a long-game standpoint, but I lament how much of the player interaction that rips out of the diplomacy, which then does pretty much just get reduced to DoWs and the occasional demand/request for money or resources. I'd be curious to hear what you think as a deity player.

 

[sampsa]

What graphics mod are you using, Sampsa? I like the deeper color palette and especially the water, but maybe it's just my eyes.

It's Blue Marble, which I'd assume is very standard by now.

Also, what are your thoughts specifically about NTT? I find tech trades to be a little too wheedle-y sometimes so their removal is refreshing from a long-game standpoint, but I lament how much of the player interaction that rips out of the diplomacy, which then does pretty much just get reduced to DoWs and the occasional demand/request for money or resources. I'd be curious to hear what you think as a deity player.

I kinda like NTT. Human player just has such a massive advantage in tech trades, especially when lots of AIs around, that it makes sense to tone down that advantage. There is still stealing of course, but that is "OP" only under some conditions.

One reason I don't play pangaea-maps is that tech trades make the tech choices less interesting. It's rarely sensible to tech stuff that AIs like to go for. I think diplo is still very important even if there is NTT. Not much beats immunity from war declarations from your neighbors.

 

[Pedro78]

Sorry for necroing this. I just spent 45min reading this thread + the whole backstory & found it thoroughly entertaining.

First off, congrats @sampsa , you've clearly proven your point (game looks in the bag barring a disaster). Nice to see you're picking up a deity map once in a while, esp since this wasn't an easy one. Every once in a while a new guy shows up, posts his whacky strategy & then argues about it for days on end while calling everyone else an idiot. It feels kinda good when someone actually posts a game to prove them wrong (too bad they usually disappear afterwards).

When I first got hooked on Civ many moons ago (& before discovering these forums) I really enjoyed playing the Earth18Civs scenario on Marathon speed with various leaders (which is comparable to a Huge Terra map with a really, really good start). Beating it on Deity was easy even though I struggled on IMM with "normal" settings. And it had nothing to do with failgold: chop out cheap units, conquer, build cottages.
Kaitzilla's game on the thread leading up to this one was really interesting cause he found the one in a hundred Huge/Mara map where getting a win actually takes some skill . Always a pleasure to read these detailed write-ups with all the city-gifting trickery & game-mechanics insights.

While starting in the middle of AIs is objectively more difficult most of the time, I feel like the most annoying part about it is all the extra rng (always gotta have a plan B for city spots, hard to make long-term plans, needing to always be ready to whip units etc.)

Big fan of the Holkan/Cats thingy btw, I never got to use this combo (and god knows Archerpult is depressing).

 

[MassRiflemen]

Sorry for necroing this. I just spent 45min reading this thread + the whole backstory & found it thoroughly entertaining.

First off, congrats @sampsa , you've clearly proven your point (game looks in the bag barring a disaster). Nice to see you're picking up a deity map once in a while, esp since this wasn't an easy one. Every once in a while a new guy shows up, posts his whacky strategy & then argues about it for days on end while calling everyone else an idiot. It feels kinda good when someone actually posts a game to prove them wrong (too bad they usually disappear afterwards).

When I first got hooked on Civ many moons ago (& before discovering these forums) I really enjoyed playing the Earth18Civs scenario on Marathon speed with various leaders (which is comparable to a Huge Terra map with a really, really good start). Beating it on Deity was easy even though I struggled on IMM with "normal" settings. And it had nothing to do with failgold: chop out cheap units, conquer, build cottages.
Kaitzilla's game on the thread leading up to this one was really interesting cause he found the one in a hundred Huge/Mara map where getting a win actually takes some skill . Always a pleasure to read these detailed write-ups with all the city-gifting trickery & game-mechanics insights.

While starting in the middle of AIs is objectively more difficult most of the time, I feel like the most annoying part about it is all the extra rng (always gotta have a plan B for city spots, hard to make long-term plans, needing to always be ready to whip units etc.)

Big fan of the Holkan/Cats thingy btw, I never got to use this combo (and god knows Archerpult is depressing).

I didn't disappear bro. I'm just glad someone was able to finally do it systemically. The game is far more informative than Lain's on similiar settings.

 

[sampsa]

I have played on a bit, but it's unlikely I will ever be able to finish the game. It's just very grindy and the outcome should be clear, barring massive mistakes.

 

[MassRiflemen]

I have played on a bit, but it's unlikely I will ever be able to finish the game. It's just very grindy and the outcome should be clear, barring massive mistakes.

The games usually crash in the modern era.

Delete the uranium so people can't nuke, because:
One: Nukes are lame.
Two: They will definitely crash the game.

 

[bigbamboo]

Oh,This setup is way too time-consuming. I'll give it a try when I have time—if it can actually help me gain an advantage in matches, that's good enough for me

 

[sampsa]

Oh,This setup is way too time-consuming. I'll give it a try when I have time—if it can actually help me gain an advantage in matches, that's good enough for me

Agreed. That's why I haven't finished the game even if I think it's close to won technically.

 

[bigbamboo]

Spoiler :

You must have packed in a lot of AIs because it’s super crowded—I could only settle 3 cities. When I realized Ethiopia’s cities were right on top of my capital, I knew I had to take control and secure strategic resources. I sacrificed my economy to prioritize Animal Husbandry (and it paid off—without that Horses tile, my early game would’ve been a disaster). My third city grabbed the Horses, and then I went all-in on a fast Horse Archer Rush (in standard games, this tactic lets you field 9–11 units by Turns 70–75). I wiped out Ethiopia and England while holding off Sitting Bull to the south, then bribed Germany to join me in attacking Rome. Of course, I was just feinting—I soon made peace and backstabbed Germany to snag the crucial Elephants, which turned the tide. By then, I had 17 cities.

Spoiler :

By Turn 245, I was ready to take Rome and open up the eastern front—those Wonders and Holy Cities in Spain and China were too tempting to ignore. The war was brutal; by AD 1000 (Turn 245), five of my friends had already 'gone to Mars' (our local slang for getting eliminated)