Deity - one city challenge strategy

[Faerwon]

I know the "word" has been around long before Bush became president, but he did make it more popular, hence my remark. Anyway, being from Finland, i knew you would appreciate being told this word is wrong, and i thought this would be a funny way to do so.

Well thanks.

On the topic itself, I tried running an OCC a bit differently. Difficulty at my "skill level" (noble) and a tiny map with 18 civs. Seems to be going smoothly but I fear I have blundered. I decided to befriend Alexander, who seems to be a pariah, I keep getting constant demands to stop trading with him (he's worst enemy to like 8 nations although he hasn't done much fighting) and my relations with everyone else are really sour. At 'best', I've been in war with 10 other nations, though right now I'm just getting heat from a couple weaklings and an unusual strongest/weakest alliance. Getting an alliance with Alex seems really hard as you have to be at peace to do it (or at least DP). I also just have realized I can't get an early blitzkrieg army of cossacks because this map has no horses!
Can they be hidden by a forest, appearing when it's chopped down (I remember some resources doing this in earlier Civs)?
I'm also annoyed that upgrading units drops their experience to 10 points, so my most veteran unit is a level 9 rifleman with 33/82 experience.

 

[luckynick]

Rex :

If you trade like mad you cannot avoid hitting the problem of "we fear you re too advanced blabla ..".
You can reduce the problem by trading wisely and prcisely what you absolutly need.
In instance some tech are mandatory while other aren't (at least at the beginning). I mean, you need hardly (from alphabet starting point) : monarchy, feudalism, drama, codeoflaws, civil service
Depending on situations, you perhaps need sailing too.
Literature can come later as philo you need both those one + a religion in order to mass produce GP, and a big place in your production plan for nationnal epic.
Currency can come later too since to sell tech require any of those buyer/seller having currency, not both.

Obviously, at deity you NEED massonry, since walls are mandatory, i you think you can't afford to build them due to hammer cost, then your starting point is a bad one (prob missing forest/hills)

Regarding XPFarm wars, if you want (or get) it in the very beginning of game, you will need walls to avoid losing your best archer to a nasty promoted swordman.
Otherwise if you get it just after getting feudalism and with a decent amount of cash in bank, it's fine too.

BTW, it's important you plan your worker regarding these facts (sometimes it mean no worker at all ^^)

 

[luckynick]

one more thing, i ve tried epic and marathon speed, they are extremly harder than normal speed in PA OCC.
Why ? because military pressure will be a lot havier, and the first big gap beetween you and AIs is increased by longer speed mechanics, resulting many AI havng alphabet already and more.
(for example, i ve been attacked in a game by julius before having alpha, and that one brought out war elephants !! it was epic and i played eliza on coastal wich mean mass cash for research, got no religion spread as well)

 

[Faerwon]

"Athens has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!"
....
There goes the capital of the only nation with positive relations to me.

Aztecs have a funny reason for not trading Rocketry. "We'd rather win the game, thank you."

I have to agree on the speed. The faster the game, the less time for warmongering. Also, with small investments great people are easier to come by.

 

[Excl]

Maybe that's the key ... game speed. I always played on marathon (while the guide suggests epic) and I found myself falling behind quickly.

Maybe declaring war on runaway nations is key as well. I was always leery of doing it, for fear of angering one of the nations I was trying to befriend. Maybe it's a necessary evil.

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

Okay. Just lost my most recent attempt. Made it to 1824 when Cyrus, my PA hopeful, was attacked my Monte. Monte was 1, Cyrus was 2. Next turn Cyrus asks me to declare against Monte (my neighbor). Knowing it was probably my demise, I agree.

Three turns later, <HORNS> Cyrus and Montezuma declare peace. Son of a...
Monte's still not talking. No one else will come to my aide. Then Catherine and Kubla Kahn both declare in the same turn.

Next turn Cyrus gives me chemistry. But my musketmen and level 5 longbowmen can't stand to Monte's riflemen. I die before the Russian infantry even make it close to Mecca.

Diplomacy is definitely the key in OCC. In this game everyone was jewish while I had no religion. I finally got Budhism around 1200 AD or so, but couldn't use it for fear of drawing everyone's fire. It wasn't until the 1700s that Islam (Cyrus' religion) made it to me. He was friendly by 1800, I think.

Diplomacy is the key to OCC and religion is the key to diplomacy, IMO.

 

[Faerwon]

Diplomacy is definitely the key in OCC. In this game everyone was jewish while I had no religion. I finally got Budhism around 1200 AD or so, but couldn't use it for fear of drawing everyone's fire. It wasn't until the 1700s that Islam (Cyrus' religion) made it to me. He was friendly by 1800, I think.

Diplomacy is the key to OCC and religion is the key to diplomacy, IMO.

So the question is, how to find the key? I want to adopt my neighbors / PA target's religion SO BAD and all these crap religions from far away countries worm their way to my city. I'm also curious: has anyone ever seen 4 or more religions in one city? Feels like missionaries fail 100% if there's already 3 religions in a city.

I love how the OCC strategy works in a PA. If you get declared upon, your city will seem like the weakest spot ripe for the picking, but to the AIs eventual dismay it turns out to be a meatgrinder that makes them lose troops at a ratio of 30 to 1 or so. Then your ally crushes their weakened defences and takes their cities.

By the way, so far I've had 2 tiny maps in a row that had no horses on them. Is that a map creation rule, to prevent 2-move unit dominance in the early game?

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

I think my problem with religion is in taking the "no land development bit too far. I wasn't building necessities for bringing in incense, gold, etc. However, in late last game I did this. Wasn't getting lumbermills anytime soon, anyway. As soon as I did, I traded away these usless resources for whales and clams. Suddenly, the religion of the trading culture arrives 50 turns later, or so.

If I do this in the BCs, I can rely on enemies pilaging after I have religion and forests can grow well before replaceable parts/lumbermills.

THat'll be my next go at things.

 

[luckynick]

Religion tend to spread easyer if you re near a holy city.

BTW you re right about the trades being the key of religion spreading, not only ressources trades but open border work as well, at least to get religions from your neibourghs.

Anyway, don't think that a close by AI can't become your PA due to border contest. One of my best game i was near cathy and finnaly get a PA from her while having a -1 due to border and another -1 due to worst ennemy trading.
They even trampled on me once during the game but i pushed back their puny troops. A strange game because i was realy in good relation with isabella as i was targeting her as PA (no relation hits and a def pact on). But she canceled the def pact no even because she was going to war but just because of my face oO.
I wasn't disappointed as cathy was leader when i finnaly get PA from her and we managed to get a space victory.

Note about that : When you finnaly get your PA, if rocketry is up for almost all civ still living (i mean not the loosy 3 city ones), you will never have the time to rampage all before one win by spacerace, so either try to beat them on the race by tuning and helping your ally research, or try to win by score.

Of course if you want a long long bloody savage game, just disable diplo, culture, spacerace and time victory

 

[yeehi]

I tried phyacis's strategy. I couldn't use it because:

1
I never had enough food to keep two scientist specialists

2
Earlier, i *had* to keep builidng military units as there was nothing else for me to build.

3
Usually after a while i end up with a battle against some catapult and then lose the game: i think 3 archers is nowhere near enough

4
THere is no guidance on what to do about being influenced by religion

5
I am a noober

6
Do i ever attack anything next to my city, or do i only wait?

7 I got to about 1600 once but lost to space race

8 I tried using frederick as i heard that spiritual is a waste of time.

9 My research is alwasy at about 80 or 90%, can't do more or lose money

 

[Excl]

Well I'm not sure if I'm the right guy to be helping you out here sicne I've never actually WON on this strat yet ... but I've done alright so far, so maybe I can help you out a bit.

I tried phyacis's strategy. I couldn't use it because:

1
I never had enough food to keep two scientist specialists

I think initial starting position is a big key here. You may want to do a couple of "Regenerate Map"s a the start if you don't get a spot that has good food and good forests. Some times it takes me a good 10 minutes to find an adequete spot. Like he says in the guide, you want a spot that's 1) on a hill, 2) has at least 4 grassland forest squares (2 food 1 prod), and 3) has at least 2 or 3 excess food squares ... or something that gives you +3 or more food. Flood plains work, or grassland with a corn or rice resource. Seas squares with crabs or fish work real well also. One seas tile with a fish resource and a workboat, should be enough to support 2 scientists by itself.

2
Earlier, i *had* to keep builidng military units as there was nothing else for me to build.

Try micro managing your city tiles. I've you've built everything you need, then try switching over to tiles that are all bread and coin (food and commerce). You can also use the "coin" button in your city window to emphasis commerce. With the added commerce, your science will research faster. If you still have production to burn (which I've never had), then build galleys to protect your workboats.

3
Usually after a while i end up with a battle against some catapult and then lose the game: i think 3 archers is nowhere near enough

4 archers should be enough for the first 100 years or so. When you get up to Monarchy, you'll want to make at least 2 more. Try to get Feudelism as soon as possible to upgrade those guys to longbowman. Six longbowman, can hold their ground against a small wave of musketmen.

4
THere is no guidance on what to do about being influenced by religion

Yeah there is. Try to keep no state religion when possible. It doesn't matter if a couple religions "spread" to your city, as long as you don't make it your state religion (F8, I believe) ... try to keep "no religion" as your state religion. If a Civ asks you to switch to something, then do it ... but after 5 turns, just switch back to no religion.

5
I am a noober

Try playing on easier levels, like Noble. When you get the hand of micro-managing and trading (which are essential here), then you can start moving up the difficulty ladder)

6
Do i ever attack anything next to my city, or do i only wait?

You wait! With only 4 archers defending, you don't want to pick fights. Plus starting wars are going to hurt your relations. Let other nations pick on you, and then just hold your turf. You'll find you can make some money this way. If another nation declares on you, sit back and let them get obliterated by your fortified archers. (Make sure you are promoting them with hill defense, city defense and the like) After about 10 turns, wait until most attackers are dead and the nation is regrouping. Pull up the Diplo screen and ask "what is the price for peace" ... most of the time, they'll end up paying YOU to declare a cease fire.

7 I got to about 1600 once but lost to space race

That's actually not to bad. I usually get about there and everyones building rockets too. By this point you should have made a Permenate Alliance with somebody and trying to kick tail. My problem is, I get the PA ... but it seems to slow down the research of the guy I allied with, and when I try to start a war, it ends up as me versus everyone.

8 I tried using frederick as i heard that spiritual is a waste of time.

Spiritual takes anarchy away when you switch civics. It's real helpful in negotiating, as you can switch religions and civic when asked, and you can also switch it to get another country to like you for a bit when you need it. Sometimes it helps to switch to a religion, and then ask another country to attack a stronger country for you.

9 My research is alwasy at about 80 or 90%, can't do more or lose money

After you get Alphabet, you can start trading technologies. You'll find some Civs have no techs to trade you, but a decent sum of cash. Rather than getting nothing for the tech, trade them for the cash. I usually end up with a sum of around 1000gp or more, which allows me to run my science at 100%. Sure I'll lose around -3 or -4, but with 1000gp, I'm not going to hit zero anytime soon. I get a new technology well before then, and just trade it away for more cash.

 

[Thomas G.]

I tried this strategy, and after 4-5 tries (Im still a Prince+ player) I had one very nearly work on deity.
My diplomacy game was rather weird. I had tried to cultivate Fred of Germany, but after he switched religion on me I was unable to ally. Surprisingly, the romans whom I had insulted earlier agreed. Same religion and fav. civic must have helped.

Anyway we lost a space race, but we were doing well crushing the biggest civ with our military forces. Sadly the peacekeeping coward civs managed to launch.

On a side note, seafood resources should enable you to run 2 scientists for a long time (untill enemy gets galleys over)

So strategy works great. When I failed it was only because I didn't build the 5 required archers, but tried going with like 3.

One problem I faced was about regenerating maps. Is there a way to prevent this:
First game I played I hit the "regenerate map" button a few times, till I got a decent position. I played thru the game, but suddenly found myself unable to build the globe theatre! (Need (1/5) temples). I played a bit more, and I was able to form a permanent alliance(!)
So for some reason, after the map was regenerated the permanent alliance button was still enabled, but the one city challenge button was off. All other settings were the same as original game
Any explanation for this, and is there any way to fix it?

 

[scienide09]

I love the OCC format, so I thought I would try this out. I even downloaded the Phyacis' savegave with the fooderiffic start position. With all those food, I just had to go the longer tech route Hunting > Archery (for the archers) > Fishing (food) > Pottery > Writing (library+specialists)

Things were going well. The discovery of alphabet and Phyacis' advice about trading from the bottom up really works. I was one of the bottom feeders, tech-wise, until I tried this method. A number of turns later I had picked up many of the essential early techs, and a little while after that, even some of my friends were giving me the "We fear that you are becoming too advanced" line. You'll never reach the top tier in terms of technology by doing this -- eventually the better AI's will already have everything you know. But this sure can give you a boost over some of the lesser civ. You can even try to go back to the weaker ones later, and see if they've got anything left for
you to trade.

My downfall was war. But not in the way the strategy guide suggests. While I did fall to a stronger military, I avoided war until 390 AD. That's right, even will all those aggressive civs and virtually no land to expand, no one attacked me during all that early-game time. Unfortunately, this meant that none of my archer city defenders had promotions, except for City Garrison I given by the barracks. Wihle they stood up to the first couple of waves, it was soon too much. Between 390AD and about 600AD, four separate civs declared war on me -- they were literally lined up to take their shots. I managed to bribe one of them into a peace treaty (1 tech plus half my gold), but it was too little, too late. After wiping out my fishing boats, I didn't have enough food to sustain population and maintain good production -- eventually, I just couldn't build those archers fast enough to replace the ones being killed. And since my friends were worried about my technological advances, none would trade/give me feudalism, so that I might upgrade one of my own archers to a longbowman. I lasted until 670AD before wave after wave of enemy longbowmen took out Mecca and wiped my civ from the world.

Kind of disappointing, really. I had two potential PA's in sight. Both were good relations (including the religion bonus, +5 and +6, no red marks), strong on the scoreboard, and tech leaders.
Also a pain because it all happened just as I was in the midst of building the Globe Theatre, and was about halfway through researching civil service. Had I finished both of those, with caste system, bureacracy, and no unhappiness, I might have been able to play it out.

I don't usually play on deity, so it was an extra challenge. Perhaps I should have been more aggressive at the start by declaring war, and then having that civ come and attack me?

I might try again later.

 

[sfrafrows]

scienide09

There is a tip that may help you.
Build your city on the good spot, then start the barracs.
While that, move ur warrior to scout and meet the people around (you really need this).
After you are almost finishing your 3rd or 4th archer, move your warrior to a next neighboor and declare war (try to do this stealing a worker).
The initial archers should be very enough to hold your city, and boost the promotions really on beggining.
The enemy will get tired soon since your archers will be very promoted and they wont have nothing to pillage yet, so its most likely they will ask for peace, which you should accept. Then you just keep following the guide untill you get feudalism to upgrade the most promoted archers.

hope this helps

 

[okterrific]

love occ... makes micromanaging fun again!

the only part i hate is having to ask my PA hopeful what they think about 18 different civs every turn... is there a quick way of finding out who likes who and who hates who?

 

[Excl]

love occ... makes micromanaging fun again!

the only part i hate is having to ask my PA hopeful what they think about 18 different civs every turn... is there a quick way of finding out who likes who and who hates who?

Yes, just go to the F4 Diplomacy view, and click on whichever character you like. It will show what everyone else thinks of them. You can also go to the resources and technologies tab to see who can offer you what for trading. Very helpful.

 

[ChangHao]

this is a great thread. why didn't i see it earlier?
very creative and original. well done!
i will try it for the current gauntlet

 

[nogoud]

Hi all, this is my first post and to say all, I am a complete noob here. I play normally at noble/prince level with some success, but I was really tempted by Phyacis excellent guide. It really rocks. After several attepts I managed to survive and go after PA just to loose in space race. It really comes early in deity! After that, I tried on Immortal and won!

I have just one question to experts concerning defense pact.
In one game I got a DP with two leaders about 1400ad. Soon after I got attacked by Alex, and obviously my fiends helped me and stomped him to the ground. But at the same time BOTH have canlelled the pact! And two turns later I was declared on by three other guys which brought about 20-30 rifleman each with tons ot cats so the game was over. As the defense pack was cancelled, there was nobody to help me.

The same scenario repeated on other occasions. Once I managed to survive and renegociate the defense pact after the war was over. But this ******ed my PA until 1650 and it was too late. As I understand, defense pact is automatically cancelled if one party attacks a third person. In this case it was just a legitimate self defense action of a partner, not a deliberate agression.

The way it happens, the defense pack is automatically cancelled in case of war, regardless if you are agressor or victim.
For me it is not logical, is this a normal behaviour ?

 

[NuWorld]

My first OCC game, went for monarch difficulty, standard map, 18 civs, marathon speed, no space race, no diplo victory, no time victory, Elizabeth (good cash & strong midgame UU). City location seemed pretty decent, 5 hills (2 forested, 2 gems), 4 grasslands (forested, fresh water, 1 incense, 1 corn), 3 plains (fresh water, 1 ivory), 1 desert and rest was sea (1 fish). Found city on a hill, when I traded later for iron working, found out that city was built on top of iron mine. Other recources available within cultural borders included fish, gems & marble. Several observations on this game settings:

On marathon speed, you can research faster than you can build, so you have to focus more on hammer production, especially if you play with financial trait because you won't have money (research) problem whatsoever. That means chopping to rush production when necessary or building mines, either way you'll need 1 or 2 workers as soon as you trade for iron working. I figured it may cause health problems later on but I was able to offset that with granary, aqueduct, harbor & via trading for health resources. With financial you won't need luxuries ever so trade them for fish or cow asap.

Techwise, you'll stay ahead of everyone for a very long time, meaning you won't be able to trade much for techs but for money. I've seen that as a potential problem so I went for mathematics/currency right after drama. It would be better to go for math/curr before drama because you won't need globe theatre any time soon. At first stage, after alphabet, you'll easily acquire lesser techs, but later you'll have less to trade for. 2nd Great Scientist could be prolonged for quite a while, to allow your city to grow and to build army and city improvements (walls, granary, aqueduct, lighthouse, harbor, some monastery if you aceept any religions.) I spawned 2nd GS to soon and my city grow was severely crippled because of that. I had to chop grassland tiles to build farms. Happiness was not an issue, I could have size 9, instead I head 5 and struggling to grow. Chopping forest caused production problems, so I had to mine some hills. 1 worker chopped another and then another, 3-tag-team was necessary because of faster farm building, it takes 5 turns on marathon to build a farm/quarry with 3 workers, 4 turns for mine/plantation, 3 for camp, 2 for road, 3 to chop forest. Choppping outside fat cross and cultural borders is encouraged, but guard your workers carefully. After I got alphabet, I traded for techs necessary for maths and then went for currency. After currency, I went for cash, trading techs like priesthood, monotheism, polytheism...maybe that did the trick to early acquire 3 religions?!? After currency, I invented monarchy, code of laws, feudalism, civil service, literature and philosophy (via GS) by 1000 BC. By 1 AD I invented construction, engineering, machinery and paper, and fat cross was fully improved. Lower techs needed are all traded for. Currently, I'm at 700 AD going for Liberalism (and I'll get there first), city is size 14, civics: hereditary rule-bureaucracy-caste-mercantilism-pacifism and having about 7000 cash. City is fully improved, with heroic & national epics, academy, globe theater...acquired 4 religions, so I'm bulding religious buldings right now. My religion is buddhist, there are 2 confu, 2 hindu, 1 jewish and 1 christian civs, rest is buddhist. Problem I foresee is that only 1 of my neighbours is buddhist (scumbag Toku), so I might have few fights soon. So far, my diplomacy is good, mostly pleased with few frends, only one annoyed is Genghis but he is far far away, bribery is a nice tool without having cash problems . I managed to build an army of 7 longbowmen, 3 war elephants, 3 macemen and 5 catapults, no losses so far.

War goes on all he time beetween civs, I managed to avoid fighting most of the time. Only problems came from crazy Monty as soon as he got iron (about 2000 BC) and send a stack of 8 jaguars/axemen but they all died while promoting my 4 archers and 2 axemen. He did the same thing 1000 years later with a stack of 12 but was equally successful. In the meantime, only Napoleon dared to test my defense with a stack of 10 axemen/spearmen but that was a poor try too. Scorewise, I'm drifting between #6 and #9, at about 80% of the big guns. Demographics, top 8, even in military, while being #1 in approval rate. Regarding future allies, choice is narrowing to 3 civs, Cyrus, Gandhi & Caesar, first 2 being top scorers, Caesar is lower than me but has strong army and he is in good relations with both Gandhi and Cyrus, so maybe some coalition will be formed. So far, so good.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The way it happens, the defense pack is automatically cancelled in case of war, regardless if you are agressor or victim.
For me it is not logical, is this a normal behaviour ?

Well to prevent wierd abuses, the Defensive Pact is designed to only be good for 1 (one) war. So as soon as either party is in volved in a war the DP goes away (because it gets activated when the other pact partner declares war to help you, or one pact partner declared an offensive war)

(also a PA can be signed with a long enough 'shared war' DP is not necessary)