Deity Petra Build

[vivalamexico]

What does the optimal build (cap bo, tech path, etc.) for getting petra on deity look like? I find that it takes too long for my liking to tech currency without libraries if stagnating to build settlers, but that writing is too big a detour.
Thoughts?

 

[R0cafella]

What does the optimal build (cap bo, tech path, etc.) for getting petra on deity look like? I find that it takes too long for my liking to tech currency without libraries if stagnating to build settlers, but that writing is too big a detour.
Thoughts?

Ackens Byzantium let's play demonstrates a Petra build very nicely.

 

[Shark Diver]

I've had some pretty good luck getting Petra on Deity lately, but I don't build it, I use Liberty finisher GE.

Tech order would be early writing, early AH (for early Caravan). This gets science up running quickly. I try to time researching Currency to coincide with finishing Liberty.

Then head straight to Philosophy and hard build Oracle ASAP. The free policy really helps get through Liberty.

While building Oracle, beeline Currency. Your Library(s) + Caravan should get you through those techs pretty quickly.

Social Policies are the key. I don't think it matters much if you open Tradition and then go through Liberty, or just go straight through Liberty. Opening Tradition may slow down completion of the tree by a few turns, but the faster border expansion etc. are very valuable.

Whichever route you take, the ideal path for quickest finish is Republic > Citizenship (both help with building of Library/Caravan/Oracle) > Representation (the Golden Age really helps get through the tree) > Meritocracy > Collective Rule.

This strategy usually times researching Currency at almost the exact same turn Liberty is finished. In a perfect world, Oracle will be the finisher, but the science/culture timing is the key.

It's very helpful if you can hold off on Collective Rule for the finisher. More cities = slower science and slower social policies.

This strategy works great when your capital doesn't have great desert, but there is good desert nearby. Just walk the settler and GE over to the new spot and insta-build Petra. Now you have two very strong cities.

I will generally have time to hard build at least one settler while waiting to research Oracle, and that expo has to go Monument > Library to offset city cost.

Scouting is pretty important, as you want to know if anyone else has a desert capital. My successful turn time for this has ranged from t62-80.

One last thought: even pulling this off successfully most of the time, it quite often isn't worth the effort. If you aren't able to go wide, Liberty can be a bit of an albatross compared to Tradition. I only go for Petra now if there is a really good location.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[stormtrooper412]

I've seen Petra go as early at turn 58 on Standard speed and as late as 90+. I'd say if Morocco/Egypt/Arabia are in, you're better off not even trying because you're extremely unlikely to get it. I managed to get it once as Morocco turn 85-ish even

 

[beetle]

Social Policies are the key. I don't think it matters much if you open Tradition and then go through Liberty, or just go straight through Liberty. Opening Tradition may slow down completion of the tree by a few turns, but the faster border expansion etc. are very valuable.

I am encouraged to read that you think you can spare one SP pick before Liberty GE finisher. I am worried about delaying the Liberty settler though. Can it make sense to open Tradition only after a few policies in Liberty? Or don’t bother at that point?

 

[consentient]

If you hit a culture ruin AND build Monument second, then opening Tradition before going into Liberty isn't a bad idea. The Liberty settler shouldn't come too early anyway, as you might not yet have luxes online. Trad-Lib mix is > Lib in many situations, I think. But my view on Petra is that it's only worth building if there all of the following 3 are true:

- It's still available as a Liberty finisher (obv.)
- There is a really good spot for it
- You didn't plan for it, so haven't compromised tech

Even then, scientist, or using the Engineer for another wonder, might well be better.

 

[beetle]

If you hit a culture ruin AND build Monument second, then opening Tradition before going into Liberty isn't a bad idea.

The early monument is the usual, and a cultural ruin is not unusual, but I don’t follow how good luck justifies deviating from one’s preferred strategy.

The Liberty settler shouldn't come too early anyway, as you might not yet have luxes online.

That never seems to be a problem for me! I usually go for the worker first (which might not be optimal, but I am still struggling with worker stealing). My first settler with Liberty seems to come later that my first one from Tradition. I also understand that some Liberty players do not wait on the SP for their first settler (which seems bad to me, but I not good at Deity). In any case, the settler-too-soon seems quite unlikely, and a good problem to have!

Trad-Lib mix is > Lib in many situations, I think.

Agreed, but how strongly do you believe that Tradition opener should be first? Is it okay that I delay it until after the Liberty settler?

But my view on Petra is that it's only worth building if there all of the following 3 are true...

Nice OT summary!

 

[Shark Diver]

I am encouraged to read that you think you can spare one SP pick before Liberty GE finisher. I am worried about delaying the Liberty settler though. Can it make sense to open Tradition only after a few policies in Liberty? Or don’t bother at that point?

Unless my capital is in an obvious Petra location, I haven't usually decided I'm going to use this gambit until some exploring has been done. In fact, I rarely go into a game knowing what strategy I'm going to employ. Because of this, I almost always open Tradition for my 1st policy. I find it to be easily the most powerful of the early SP openers. The culture is great for kickstarting SP's, but it is the faster border growth that really can't be quantified. Getting to outer ring resources sooner, and without buying tiles, can make a huge difference, especially early game. And, again, I don't think it slows down Liberty finisher by more than a few turns.

I've never tried going back to Tradition Opener after taking just a few in Liberty. I think that would be giving up about a lot of the early game advantage.

When it comes to using GE for Petra, I would either open with Tradition or ignore Tradition altogether.

 

[Shark Diver]

If you hit a culture ruin AND build Monument second, then opening Tradition before going into Liberty isn't a bad idea. The Liberty settler shouldn't come too early anyway, as you might not yet have luxes online. Trad-Lib mix is > Lib in many situations, I think. But my view on Petra is that it's only worth building if there all of the following 3 are true:

- It's still available as a Liberty finisher (obv.)
- There is a really good spot for it
- You didn't plan for it, so haven't compromised tech

Even then, scientist, or using the Engineer for another wonder, might well be better.

Agreed about Trad-Lib mix > Lib.

Agreed that it needs to be available (duh ) and needs a good spot to justify.

As for planning for it, I've usually semi-committed to it when I decide to open Liberty. This isn't a full commitment, as I can just go left side of Liberty and then go back to Tradition very easily, but I'm calculating my odds at this point (and trying to get a glimpse of every other Capital looking for desert). The decision point is when I skip the free settler and go to right side of Liberty. I can think of no other time where I would do this diversion (assumes I have stolen my workers).

Regarding tech compromise: I'm usually beelining Philosophy anyways and building Oracle while waiting for libraries to finish in expos. Grabbing the three techs to get Currency isn't much of a diversion. It may slow down reaching Uni's by 8-10 turns, but that's not really a concern for me. Early science is very important. Mid-game, not so much, as I generally make my big move in tech late game anyways. Perhaps this is why I don't finish with sub-250 times, but (to bring up a longstanding discussion) optimizing finishing time isn't the same as optimizing the likelihood of winning.

Not using the Liberty finisher on a GS can somewhat be made up for by the fact that you got early Oracle, which will give you a relatively early GS anyways (especially if you get garden and National Epic in Capital early).

Saving the GE for another wonder can be forced on you if someone grabs Petra right before you, and that's fine. You're going to have some great options, and this is just about the only scenario where I find myself getting LToP. However, with a good Petra location, it's one of the most powerful Wonders in the game.

One thing I didn't mention is that taking a cultural pantheon makes a huge difference in this gambit. I might consider just beelining Currency in this scenario, but that's an entirely different strategy altogether.

At the end of the day, DON'T hard build Petra, IMHO (exceptions apply). The opportunity cost of losing out on it is too great.