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Deity: Tech parity with AI without RAs

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by fmlizard2, Sep 6, 2011.

  1. fmlizard2

    fmlizard2 Prince

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    Apr 6, 2011
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    I don't really like doing RAs. They get canceled far too often through wars, AIs often don't have the cash, and when they do, I don't. Yes, I sell luxuries and resources to the bleeding edge. Plus, I love the benefits of Patronage and the two strategies tend to be mutually exclusive, based on :c5gold:. If you can afford to go heavy in both...well, you probably already have won.

    I'm able to achieve tech parity and to exceed the AI on Immortal pretty consistently in :c5science: without using many RAs. It takes a little bit to make up the ground they start with but I typically hit Renaissance first and by mid-Industrial I have a sound lead...then I do my Mech Infantry slingshot and have a considerable lead from there on out. Easier to achieve with Korea or Babylon, but I have been able to do it with generic, non-:c5science: biased Civs.

    However, on Deity, I just can't keep up in :c5science: without going very RA heavy. Thankfully it is the one level where the AI is bound to have the :c5gold: to do them, but am I following an impossible path by trying to outdo the AI using pure hard :c5science: on Deity?
     
  2. lilnev

    lilnev King

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
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    949
    If the AI doesn't have the cash, buy a luxury or gpt from them. If they don't even have that (defeated foes down to a few cities), gift them the money. It's still a bargain even if you're paying both sides plus a 100 gold penalty.

    Early on, buying CSs might be better -- techs are fewer beakers, before Rationalism and/or PT, especially when a CS comes with a new luxury or substantial strategics, allowing you to sell your own. Soon, though, you should be signing RAs with everyone you aren't planning to attack within 30 turns. And try to keep any AIs from getting wiped out (bribe for peace between AIs), so you have maximum RA partners.
     
  3. Iberian

    Iberian Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2004
    Messages:
    475
    I am not sure if I have even played a game without RA's so this is all theory.

    Method 1: Play Archipelago and go Patronage/City states and pump out GS cascade style from 5 cities.

    Method 2: Play Pangea so you can prevent a runaway civ. Incite wars between players. Go for a domination victory. Very luck dependent. Probably would work if you got 4 or 5 aggressive civs like Bismark, Alex, etc

    Let us know if you pull it off.
     
  4. qemist

    qemist Prince

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    Jul 16, 2011
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    562
    It's funny how often when I've being doing everything possible to keep an AI alive, it turns around and denounces me.
     
  5. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    Jan 28, 2011
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    Keeping up with raw science is very hard on Deity, if not impossible in some cases. (if one AI hands everything to another, you're in deep trouble trying to do this)

    Using Rationalism helps. Using Patronage and a lot of CSs does help a bit.

    see 33:26 in this video to see the bpt rates of a 'wide' empire (me - no rationalism, very few RAs, but did have CSs) vs. the AIs. Only Egypt (super science beast) was far ahead due to Rationalism choice (and later Order). The other AIs stayed away from Rationalism, so I was able to be 'competitive' for some time. (with Scholasticism and a lot of CSs)

    So, on the 'bpt' side of things, It's rather obvious that Rationalism + Order (25% increase with factories) is insanely powerful. Egypt even managed a 2 or 3 academy city on a mountain with research labs (etc). It alone produced most of their science. (check out the insane spike ~1300 AD)

    but on the 'tech parity' side, things are a little different.

    at 28:03 of the same video you can see that we're all 'competitive' for most of the game. Except the Egyptians of course, but the difference in techs was a lot less than the difference in bpt; until the end.
     
  6. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
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    2,332
    A few thoughts:

    - You aren't aiming for parity throughout, just reaching your win condition first. If you're in the ballgame, you can catch up.
    - The AI is terrible at using Great Scientists (it doesn't understand sitting on them), and that's a huge long-run :c5science: advantage for you. Ditto Oxford and Scientific Revolution.
    - AIs with no cash can't sign Research Agreements. AIs that hate each other won't sign Research Agreements. Plan accordingly by draining the treasuries of low-cash AIs whenever possible, and inciting as many wars and hatreds as you can.
    - Building every building that generates GPP towards Great Scientists and juggling your GPP production to maximize the number of Great Scientists you produce will also help substantially.

    Long story short, if you can hang on long enough to get to mid-Industrial and squirrel away every Great Scientist, you should be able to win a Diplomatic or Science win fairly easily. Cultural wins are even less demanding from a :c5science: standpoint.

    The only major gameplay change is that you'll need over a half-dozen cities to get to mid-Industrial and hammer out enough Great Scientists, rather than the 3-5 that a civ aided by Research Agreements requires.
     
  7. Vo01985

    Vo01985 Warlord

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    Allen, TX
    Do some of you really make sure the AI does not have enough gold to sign RA by checking their gold amount every turn? That would surely be so tedious, no? In fact, even if you did something like that, how would you ensure they would not have enough gold? Can't do much when an AI has 100+ GPT
     
  8. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    true.

    but that's what wars are for ;) (getting them to fight each other to ruin relations)
     

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