Demigod Problem: No Iron

[jtwood]

Got a question...

I made the jump to DemiGod a few months ago, and I'm running into an interesting problem. Given the distinct advantage that the AI has with the second city, I'm not able to claim very much land before I am often boxed in by the surrounding Civs. As a result, I'm finding that I have no iron in a significant portion of my games (>50%). How do you guys overcome this? Is an early offensive the only option to gain any ground, or are there other, more diplomatic solutions?

 

[ZzarkLinux]

Conquests made resources much harder to find. They tried to make the resource-game more competitive.

If you want war, consider military alliances and catapults.
This way, your enemy takes lots of casualties / losses, and you take almost none.
This is a great way to leaderfish too, so you can grab armies.

In fact, if you're looking for war, check out my signature's Always-War Demigod game.
This was a loss, but I was kicking but for a very long time...
And my next game will be ready soon too

My game was in the "Stories and Tales" forum. Also, check out the "Succession Game" forum, as there are lots of high-level games (with lots of pictures) which can also give you some ideas.

Anyway, I suggest you post a save, or pictures for us. From what you say, it sounds like you have a rough starting location, where you got boxed-in early.

To post pics:
When you reply / edit your post, click "Go Advanced".
Then on the new page is a "Manage Attachments" button.

 

[jtwood]

Thanks, Z.

My current game isn't going too badly, but it's a new one. I haven't even got to Iron Working yet. My question was more general in nature, because it is a problem I run into frequently. I anticipate that it is going to happen again. My only neighbor, the English, already have Iron Working and a couple oddly-placed cities near mountains/hills. I'm thinking that there is a decent chance they have monopolized the only iron source(s) on our mini-continent/island chain combo.

Once I get some more info, I'll throw up a couple screenshots for you. In the meantime, I'll check out your links.

 

[rysingsun]

ok, lets talk about ancient era wars.

what is the difference between squeezing in every last settler possible at the end of the expansion phase and building military at that time instead?

the difference is that with the obsessive settler technique you get a few extra corrupt cities that are prone to culture flipping. that's what you get with those last half-dozen settlers. But with a dozen archers instead you get to knock out a few enemy cities (and hurriedly make peace) instead. sounds no better, or maybe even worse, right? but it's better, because the cities you go after with your mini archer rush are probably going to be an iron city or a horse city and maybe a resource city.

and horsemen are comparable to swords anyway. if you get one or the other you are doing ok.

 

[darski]

ok, lets talk about ancient era wars.

what is the difference between squeezing in every last settler possible at the end of the expansion phase and building military at that time instead?

the difference is that with the obsessive settler technique you get a few extra corrupt cities that are prone to culture flipping. that's what you get with those last half-dozen settlers. But with a dozen archers instead you get to knock out a few enemy cities (and hurriedly make peace) instead. sounds no better, or maybe even worse, right? but it's better, because the cities you go after with your mini archer rush are probably going to be an iron city or a horse city and maybe a resource city.

and horsemen are comparable to swords anyway. if you get one or the other you are doing ok.

That is something to be considered. I tend to eek out those cities at all costs.

 

[vmxa]

Not sure what the point is that you are boxed in, I would expect to get at least 5 towns down on standard map. As to lack of iron, that does no have to be a critical problem.

Much depends on what your civ is and whom your are near. Do you at least have decent shield production? Did you get mines down? I used to love horses at DG, as they have coverage and can retreat.

This lets me reduce my losses and to punish those injured attackers. It sounds like you are not dealing with making a bunch of corrupt towns prior to being cut off, so the settler issue does not come into play.

It sounds like you are boxed before you get more than a few towns up, if so that seems like either lots of bad starts or not doing a good job of expanding. I would not expect to be cut off with 3 or 4 towns very often.

 

[timerover51]

One other option you might consider is reducing the number of opponents, and playing on a large or huge map. Basically, spread out the opposition more, and give yourself more land for resources to be located on. If you do not mind setting up games using the editor, set up a large or huge continent or archipelago map, and then have only one starting location on each continent or large island. My experience, limited as it is with editor generated maps, is that you get a reasonable distribution of resources on continents and islands, although it normally gives you a large number of one type of luxury. Also, with the editor, you do have the option of making sure that each starting location has an iron source near it.

I figure that I am playing the game for fun, and not to get frustrated, so I have no compunction about playing around with the editor a bit. I am not worried about beating Sid, but am worried about turning it into a better game than Sid designed.

 

[Aabraxan]

One other option you might consider is reducing the number of opponents, and playing on a large or huge map. Basically, spread out the opposition more, and give yourself more land for resources to be located on. . . . .

I've never played with less than the standard number of opponents, but from what I understand, decreasing the number of opponents affects the number of resources available. IOW, decreasing the number of opponents might actually make iron harder to find. Obviously, if you're using the editor to create the map, that's not an issue.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Resources even scarcer....ugh! I've played games where an entire continent lacked Iron, Oil or Rubber, and it was no fun. I suppose if the resource was totally absent it would be fairer than only one civ getting it.

 

[timerover51]

I've never played with less than the standard number of opponents, but from what I understand, decreasing the number of opponents affects the number of resources available. IOW, decreasing the number of opponents might actually make iron harder to find. Obviously, if you're using the editor to create the map, that's not an issue.

I generate the map using the full number of opponents, 31. Then I reduce the number of starting positions down to a more reasonable level, sometimes one per continent or island, sometimes more. What that gives me is the full number of resources, but limits the number of opponents. If I have decided in advance what civilization I am playing, I will look for the best starting location, and assign that to the civ. I do try to make sure that all starting locations have reasonable access to vital resources like iron and horses.

Gentlemen and ladies, my background is military history, and I do consulting on weapon effects and effectiveness, plus do miniature and board wargaming design. I tamper with the rules of almost every game that I play or use for my summer history classes. Civ3 is no exception. The first requirement of any game is that it be fun to play, and Civ3 as designed can be very frustrating. So modify it I will.

 

[Aabraxan]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't saying that you shouldn't mod the game, timerover51. Nothing wrong with that. My statements were just based on what I've heard about happens when you play an unmodded game and leave AI slots empty.

 

[timerover51]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't saying that you shouldn't mod the game, timerover51. Nothing wrong with that. My statements were just based on what I've heard about happens when you play an unmodded game and leave AI slots empty.

I learned that lesson the hard way after playing a couple of times when I generated a map with the AI slots empty, and ended up in one case with one Coal deposit on an entire large map, and because it was in the jungle, I spent over an hour searching for it before I found it. The other case was the only uranium on the map was on a two tile island. That is when I started making edited maps and then taking out the starting positions. However, the vanilla Civ3 editor for the Mac is more than a little squirrely, so I have only really started to modify Civ3 Complete since I set up a Windows box for game editing. With that, Civ3 if fun to play again.