Demonic Citizen Problems

[jimi12]

I was recently playing a game as the infernal civ and buboes come out of the ocean and took over one of the cities that i had, which had the demonic citizens building. two turns later i killed buboes and regained control of the city, but now it is filled with unhappiness and sickness because when i liberated it, i lost the demonic citizens building.

i noticed the same thing happens when you take over a city or steal on from Hyborem's Whisper. they do not start out with the demonic citizens building.

Is this intentional? i think it would make more sense if it was in any conquered city or at the very least, every liberated city or the city you get from the world spell. flavorwise it would make sense since i would think the citizens are really already killed and reborn.

 

[smjjames]

It's supposed to work that way when you conquer a city, which is why it is suggested that you found your own cities because of the bonus buildings.

I'm not sure if it's supposed to work that way when you liberate your own city, but then again, most buildings usually get destroyed when a barbarian captures a city and then when you liberate it.

I agree though that it would make sense to get it back when you liberate your own city. Not sure how easily codable it is though.

 

[Ringtailed]

liberating your own city as infernal should definitely replace the demonic citizen building

 

[Shatner]

How about the following:

Whenever a city is conquered by the infernals it is reduced to pop size 1, it gets all the buildings a settled infernal city gets and the reduced population is treated as though the city was sacked (so a good city produces angels when conquered by the infernals while a bad city produces manes).

Whenever an infernal city is conquered, reduce it to pop size 1.

That way the infernals don't get demonic citizens from populations of conquered elves, for example, and a city previously full of demons doesn't start needing food and entertainment.

I'm tempted to ask for something like a conquered infernal city, which has it's populate dropped to 1, to spawn some number of manes to represent the displaced and dangerous population. Another option is to have an undefended infernal city to spawn a mane and reduce the population by 1 or more when attacked (I believe the Bannor used to do something like this). However we all know that infernal cities can get monstrously large and I don't want the act of conquering one to be a trial of frustration. As such, have each mane spawned reduce the population by 20% OR 1, whichever is more. I personally like the idea of the demons fighting to the bitter, bloody end. Note that this shouldn't make their cities unconquerable (we want people to be able to retake cities lost to the infernals), just more difficult so as to represent the unusual population.

Thoughts?

 

[westamastaflash]

That might make Hyborem too good - he'd have a domino effect as he captures cities...

 

[Shatner]

That might make Hyborem too good - he'd have a domino effect as he captures cities...

Only if he was capturing evil cities. And he'd be getting those manes regardless just by sacking the city instead. He only really breaks even AFTER a lot of mane-moving.

Remember, his cities aren't going to get any bigger unless evil stuff dies and he settles manes in those cities. At the most, an evil city is conquered, it loses [size - 1] population, Hyborem gains [size - 1] manes (same as if it was razed) and then he has to march the manes over to the city for resettlement. Every single other civilization in the game can conquer a city and utilize the surviving population as soon as the revolting ends and no one considers this a dangerous domino effect. In fact, infernals stand to gain less than other civs by have many moderate sized cities because they can always adopt Guilds or a related civic and have a size 50+ super-specialist-city of doom; something even the Kuriotates can't pull off.

 

[CMHistory]

I vote for making Infernal cities uncapturable....at least any native city should be set to Raize Only.

Think about it: If you capture Dis, are the citizens not still Infernal? However, they will start growing based on food and you won't have access to mane spawning, even if the Demonic Citizen building is maintained. I would suggest that any city with the Demonic Citizens building be coded such that it can only be raised to the ground, as governing a population of completely demonic citizens is NOT a job for anyone but Hyborem.

A city the infernals had captured should, of course, be able to be liberated as normal, as the citizens there are still huiman (or elf, dwarf, etc)

I would think that coding capturing options to that bulding wouldn't be all that difficult, but I bow to superior experience in the form of Kael the Mighty....

 

[schlalex]

I totally agree,that liberated Cities should get their demonic citizens back. And if Kael & Co. would adapt the Infernal a bit, they could also change the expansive trait from Hyborem. It is completely useless for him and should be changed to aggressive or so, which fits much better both in story&gameplay.

 

[jimi12]

I never realized that but it does make sense. Expansive for Hyborem makes no sense at all. Arcane or Agressive would be fine.

 

[westamastaflash]

Only if he was capturing evil cities. And he'd be getting those manes regardless just by sacking the city instead. He only really breaks even AFTER a lot of mane-moving.

I was speaking more of getting all those buildings in each city. But I see your point.

 

[Milosrdenstvi]

governing a population of completely demonic citizens is NOT a job for anyone but Hyborem.

...or Calabims...

 

[Ksi]

I like how Kael upped their aggressiveness in this build but as mentioned infernals still have a lot of problems. There must be some way/ritual/spell to add demonic citizens, even for a price. Also expansive never made any sense to me. Perhaps in hell they need to make habours fast for trade.

 

[MaxAstro]

What I'd really prefer is Demonic Citizens in every city. But if that's not gonna happen, then since honestly Hyborem's Whisper honestly annoys the hell out of me and usually is a disincentive to summon Hyborem unless I want to switch to him, why not make the Infernal world spell provide Demonic Citizens in every currently owned city?

Then you can have a period of quick conquest, followed by "converting" all those newly conquered cities.

 

[Bitwise]

You know that's not a bad idea.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

In my version, I made Manes' "The Add to City" spell also add the Demonic Citizens building. This works quite nicely for a human player, but I'm not sure the AI actually uses the spell. The Function that gifts manes sometimes adds population to the city and kills the manes instead.

if (pPlayer.isHuman() == False and iUnit == iManes and pCity != -1):
								if CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Manes") < (100 - (pCity.getPopulation() * 5)):
									pCity.changePopulation(1)
									newUnit.kill(True,0)

 

[smurven]

I would love a way to get the demonic citizens building. It would be fantastic to be able to have that building in the holy city for ashen veil. other than that I'd just build new cities like everyone suggests, but it stinks not being able to have demonic citizens for the ashen veil holy city.

 

[Kael]

In 0.33 the infernals will get their free buildings in every city they get, either through founding or capture.

 

[abculatter2]

In 0.33 the infernals will get their free buildings in every city they get, either through founding or capture.

you have saved us many-a-thread from this single post

 

[onedreamer]

I agree though that it would make sense to get it back when you liberate your own city. Not sure how easily codable it is though.

liberating your own city as infernal should definitely replace the demonic citizen building

actually as I see it, it should be pretty easily made by making the demonic citizens building not destroyable. After all, if infernals conquer a living citizens city they get to deal with them, same should happen with whoever conquers a demonic citizens city.

 

[onedreamer]

In 0.33 the infernals will get their free buildings in every city they get, either through founding or capture.

this is not only overpowered but really a gameplay killer for infernal. At this point, you won't care of having any health or happiness resources... takes away a lot from the game, starting from trade to say the most marginal thing.