Design: Heroes

[pa12ick]

I love the work you guys are doing on the Hero units. You're putting a lot of thought into them & making them very cool.

I was fiddling around with the game in worldbuilder to see what each of the current Hero units does/is like/etc. and I noticed that not all the units listed in the first post on this thread are in (like the Lanun, Hippus & Clan Heroes). Is that becuase some aren't done yet?

And even some that are in the game have no Civopedia entries at all, not even blank ones (like the dragons, for example). Is that because you're still changing them?

 

[Kael]

I love the work you guys are doing on the Hero units. You're putting a lot of thought into them & making them very cool.

I was fiddling around with the game in worldbuilder to see what each of the current Hero units does/is like/etc. and I noticed that not all the units listed in the first post on this thread are in (like the Lanun, Hippus & Clan Heroes). Is that becuase some aren't done yet?

And even some that are in the game have no Civopedia entries at all, not even blank ones (like the dragons, for example). Is that because you're still changing them?

Yes to both questions. I just made Barnaxus yesterday, Magnadine will probably be coming soon.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Kael,

Even if i have no answer about who is Govannan, i give my idea about him.

Govannan:

Mvt: 1
Strength: 5

Channeling I, II, III
Enchantment I
Divine
Sorcery
Light
Spellstaff
Magic Immune
Hero

I think that you would think it's too much for a single man but OMI Govannan is a powerful mage (Divine, Sorcery, Spellstaff ), nearly immune too spells (Magic immune ) but poor in hand to hand fight (Light). I also give him Enchantment I because he is Amurite.

That's my idea....
What do you think about this Govannan ?

The Frog.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Kael,

I forgot this:

Requires : Fanaticism
Unit Category : Arcane
Cost : 300 shields.

The Frog

 

[Kael]

Kael,

Even if i have no answer about who is Govannan, i give my idea about him.

Govannan:

Mvt: 1
Strength: 5

Channeling I, II, III
Enchantment I
Divine
Sorcery
Light
Spellstaff
Magic Immune
Hero

I think that you would think it's too much for a single man but OMI Govannan is a powerful mage (Divine, Sorcery, Spellstaff ), nearly immune too spells (Magic immune ) but poor in hand to hand fight (Light). I also give him Enchantment I because he is Amurite.

That's my idea....
What do you think about this Govannan ?

The Frog.

Its a stacking of abilities, I need something unique for him. An ability that gives him some flavor. Like Corlindales ability to sacrifice himself to end all wars.

And don't worry abotu not knowing anything about him, I dont know anything about him either, he was created for the mod.

 

[Xereq]

I have an idea for a hero with a unique ability. Doesn't have a name yet so lets call him Visero. He can permanently summon the "Eyes of Visero," inviseble units that can scout enemy territory or hang around important sights in the empire. They can also be consumed toteleport Visero to thier location. He could have mind and dimensional magic. more on this later.

 

[Corlindale]

Perhaps Govannans ability could have something to do with mana nodes? At first I considered letting him create new nodes, taking 20 turns or so to do it. But I figured that would mean the player would just use him like a worker, which would be sort of boring. Sacrifice him to cause new mana nodes to pop up all over your empire?
Or perhaps allow him to do some metamagic? Not in the sense of the metamagic sphere of spells, but in the sense of casting the conventional spells in different ways. For example merging the effect of two spells, which could for instance be used to create a Meteor Shower with meteors casting a debuff on their target in addition to damage.
Or channel his spells through other units, which could be anywhere on the map(or just within a certain radius from Govannan, if it is too unbalanced), but they would die afterwards from the powerful energies surging through them. So he could channel a Meteor Shower through a galleon in the waters outside the enemy capitol, or through a lone warrior facing many barbarians in an outlying city. Maybe other mage units have a good chance to survive the channeling.

Another option would be to think up some unique and powerful spells for him. Would be cool with a unique tier 4 spell for each sphere, but that would probably be way too much work for a single unit

 

[Hian the Frog]

Kael,

Right and understood. I don't understand before your answer what really mean the word and sense of Flavor. Now, it's all right.

I give you some ideas. I don't know if it's technically possible to do.

My ideas:

1) Because Amurites Mages power is linked with the number of mana nodes they control ( Caves of Ancestors) , we can imagine that Govannan is also linked. His strength could grow by one for each node under control. So, if players want a strong Govannan, they have to be aggressive.

2) As Corlindale, Govannan could sacrifice himself to destroy mana nodes of civ(s) he is at war with. The destruction would be total: mana node disapear permanently from titles.

My english is not good enough to give names to this flavors. So, if you like them, you will have an other task....finding names to this flavor. Sorry.

The Frog.

 

[Lightzy]

I'm not much a fan of self destructing heroes, um.
but the power in relation to mana nodes idea I like very much.

and regardless, spell caster heroes are the easiest to differentiate from one another just give them a unique spell

 

[Psychorg]

Perhaps, in addition to being a powerful mage, Govannon could be a teacher of the arcane arts. By this I mean that he could teach the spells he knows to other arcane units. Possibly he could also teach spells (at least first level ones) to non-arcane units, but I'm not sure if this will be too unbalanced.

 

[loki1232]

Perhaps, in addition to being a powerful mage, Govannon could be a teacher of the arcane arts. By this I mean that he could teach the spells he knows to other arcane units. Possibly he could also teach spells (at least first level ones) to non-arcane units, but I'm not sure if this will be too unbalanced.

This is a very good idea and works especially well for the amurites since they are all spellcasters.

 

[Kael]

I really like Psychorg's idea to teach rank1 spells to other units. If I was going to do it I think I would give him the ability to teach others to cast Haste.

Hians idea to destroy opponents mana nodes could be cool too, really devastating if it is used against you.

I could also see allowing him to consume mana nodes (his own or enemies) for xp and a power increase.

Either way I think Govannon will probably be a late game hero because we will want him to have access to rank 3 spells.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i like Govannon very much! all the ideas presented a great, i especially like the teaching of spells to other units.

 

[Chalid]

How about: He can teach spells of spheres where he has consumed a node...

 

[Kael]

How about: He can teach spells of spheres where he has consumed a node...

There are so many rank 1 spells that arent useful for an entire army to have. Scorch, spring, charm person (which would just be frustrating), courage, enchant blade, etc etc.

Dance of Blades, Escape, Haste and Raise Skeleton are really the only good ones to have available to everyone. Maybe have him be able to teach any of these if he has the spells?

 

[Hian the Frog]

I really like Psychorg's idea to teach rank1 spells to other units. If I was going to do it I think I would give him the ability to teach others to cast Haste.

Hians idea to destroy opponents mana nodes could be cool too, really devastating if it is used against you.

I could also see allowing him to consume mana nodes (his own or enemies) for xp and a power increase.

Either way I think Govannon will probably be a late game hero because we will want him to have access to rank 3 spells.

Kael,

OMI, he must have access to rank 3 spells. He's a powerful mage from a magic linked civ.

I also like Psychorg's idea to teach rank 1 spell. Those one must be "battle" spells such as Haste (as you say).

Even if it seems very powerful, i really think that destroying opponents mana nodes by the sacrifice of Govannan is a good idea. It is a one-shoot flavor but that can really change the future of your gameplay. It must be used with caution.

When you say that he could also consume mana nodes for xp and power, do you think this consumption permanently or not ? My idea is that this consumption could be :
1) permanently (node destructed permanently), with strong xp/power bonuses.
2) not permanently (so you have to rebuild your node), with low xp/power bonuses.
In both situations, i would prefer a consumption of mana nodes under control, not ennemies one.

To finish, what do you mean by late Hero ? Which tech ? (fanaticism ?)

The Frog.

 

[loki1232]

Even if it seems very powerful, i really think that destroying opponents mana nodes by the sacrifice of Govannan is a good idea. It is a one-shoot flavor but that can really change the future of your gameplay. It must be used with caution.

That would be a nice ability. Especially once the monsters in fire start spawning out of mana nodes. Could this ability also destroy ancient temples?

When you say that he could also consume mana nodes for xp and power, do you think this consumption permanently or not ? My idea is that this consumption could be :
1) permanently (node destructed permanently), with strong xp/power bonuses.
2) not permanently (so you have to rebuild your node), with low xp/power bonuses.
In both situations, i would prefer a consumption of mana nodes under control, not ennemies one.

I think it would be permanent consumption of mana nodes, and could be either yours or an enemies. Presumably only yours if no enemy ones are available. And you wouldn't be allowed to consume a rival's one while you had open borders.

To finish, what do you mean by late Hero ? Which tech ? (fanaticism ?)

The Frog.

I was think one of the very late game techs, perhaps the archmage tech or almost the archmage tech?

Also, I think that he should be able to teach his hordes level 2 spells as well. Bow before the power of my amurite spellcasting hordes!

 

[Hian the Frog]

That would be a nice ability. Especially once the monsters in fire start spawning out of mana nodes. Could this ability also destroy ancient temples?


I think it would be permanent consumption of mana nodes, and could be either yours or an enemies. Presumably only yours if no enemy ones are available. And you wouldn't be allowed to consume a rival's one while you had open borders.


I was think one of the very late game techs, perhaps the archmage tech or almost the archmage tech?

Also, I think that he should be able to teach his hordes level 2 spells as well. Bow before the power of my amurite spellcasting hordes!

Loki1232,

About the Ancient Temples, i don't think so. Amurite is not a Religions Civ (Right Kael ?). So, why Ancient Temples should be under the rules of this flavor? It would be a nice idea for Bannor for exemple, they seem to be more religious.

I would prefer permanent consumption of owned mana nodes (for xp/power increase) because:
1) PERMANENTLY: you would use this flavor with caution. You increase your power/xp at a high cost, each mana nodes destructed means less power for your Cave of Ancestors and less access too a large choice of spells spheres.
2) OWNED: Your main flavor (sacrifice Govannon) destroy ennemies mana nodes. It's enough for your opponents to loose all mana nodes once and for all.

If the Team choose to create Govannon with all the powers described above, it would be a strong Hero. OMI, his creation could be later than others Heroes but not too late if you don't want him to be useless.

To finish, i don't think that teaching rank 2 spells is a good idea. This kind of spells are truly Mage/wizard powers, not combatant one.

Loki, it's the name of a Scandinavian God? Right ?

The Frog.

 

[loki1232]

Loki is the name of a Norse god, yes.

Okay you've convinced me about Govannon.
*Calls Kael*

 

[Kael]

I think we are best to link him at Arcane Lore, thats 1 before the Archmage granting tech. That way the Amurites get an archmage a little earlier than everyone else.

Anyone want to skin Govannon using either the mage or wizard model?