Design: Spells

[Civmansam]

Ideas for the summoning of Spirit Sphere:

Summoning: Summons Spirit, which is like a recon unit with no attack but no one can attack it.

Summoning II: Summons High Spirit, which summons a spirit of a demigod like spirit that aids allies The Order, or kills others The Veil

 

[Moecraft]

Air Sphere
Sorcery I: Gale - Pushes target stack one square back (If summoned, maybe it can give the attacked stack a 100% withdraw chance).

 

[upthorn]

I was thinking about Wave of Force,

If tornado already does random stack dispersal a'la

XXX
XSX
XXX

(Where S is the stack and X is a possible unit landing location)

Maybe Wave of Force could do something more like

X
 XSW
X

(Where W marks the tile that the Wave of Force entered the stack from)
So there's less overall dispersion, but the caster has more control over where the units go. If you add in a mid-to-high amount of non-collateral damage, It has the potential to seriously defang a stack of doom. Alternately, instead of causing unit damage, it could have a % chance to push units out of their square even if they're in a city, which would make it good for retaking recently captured cities.

Well, my idea probably sucks, but I'm putting it out there anyway so you can see if there's some aspect of it you like.

 

[c.fe]

I really like the spell-sphere part of the FFH spell system. Lots of choices, yeah !
But the system how often you can cast a spell would be (in my humble opinion) much more intuitive if you'd attach a mana value to each unit and a mana cost to each spell. I did this for my modpack and I'm quite happy how well it works. It also allows for some interesting new promotions that either raise a unit's mana or it's mana regeneration.
As I said: I think it allows a better fine tuning about the frequency of spell casting and is more intuitive.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

Do you already have an idea how you will implement a peacfull victory? (Don't know where to post this...)

I think it would be cool to have your 3 armages and 3 demon summunors gather in the holy city of your state religion to cast an enormous spell (comes with armageddon) that makes you win.

For Instance: "Superior Mind Control" for Overlords

Maybe have the spell require multiple nodes from a certain magic type, dependent on map size (so its not completly peacefull as you require many nodes.)

When you start the ritual all other nations get a note of what you are up to: So they have a certain number of turns (maybe 20) to stop you (either by taking the holy city, cutting off your mana supply or killing one of your mages...)

 

[Chalid]

I really like the spell-sphere part of the FFH spell system. Lots of choices, yeah !
But the system how often you can cast a spell would be (in my humble opinion) much more intuitive if you'd attach a mana value to each unit and a mana cost to each spell. I did this for my modpack and I'm quite happy how well it works. It also allows for some interesting new promotions that either raise a unit's mana or it's mana regeneration.
As I said: I think it allows a better fine tuning about the frequency of spell casting and is more intuitive.

More intuitive than simply be allowed to cast one spell every turn? I do not think so.

@Frozen Vomit: I may point you to the "Design: New Features" Thread. There we discussed Victory conditions.

 

[c.fe]

More intuitive than simply be allowed to cast one spell every turn? I do not think so.

Well, when I casted "enchant weapon" I couldn't cast it again the next turn. But the reason for this could be that now every unit already had the promotion. I don't know...

 

[Civmansam]

Ideas for new sphere's

Blood Sphere

Blood Curse: Caster loses 10% health, Target's health Degenerates

Blood Summon: Caster loses 20% health, summons Blood Demon.

Blood Heal: Caster loses 20% health, Target healed.

Cosmic Sphere

Star Reading: +2 Visibility

Constellation: +30% Strength

Shine: Target loses all movement points

Lunar Sphere

Full moon: Turns target into werewolf

Strong Moon: Turns Werewolf into next stage (blooded)

Moonlight: Turns unit invisible for that turn

Any comments?

 

[upthorn]

As it is, there's already talk of dropping spheres. So I don't think there's much point to your suggestion for adding them.

 

[Chalid]

Well, when I casted "enchant weapon" I couldn't cast it again the next turn. But the reason for this could be that now every unit already had the promotion. I don't know...

Yepp exacty. You are only allowed to cast spells that actually have an effect. If all your units have enchanted weapons (all melee units it is) why cast it again .

@Civmansam: Wa already have trouble filling those 21 Speres with spells that are really unique, codable and possible for the AI to understand at some point. So actually there is not much need for new spheres at the moment. Actually we have 15 Speres in and not all of those are filled with all the spells required. (approx 7 per Sphere).

At your specific poposals:
Lunar Sphere. The mechanism for Werewolfes is already in through Duin. Why allow similar things by magic? This will only make Duin less interesting.
Blood Sphere: All those effects are covered by other spheres and making the AI understand the price for each spell will add a lot of (unneded) complexity.
Cosmic Sphere: all these spells are either in or fit better to other spheres.

The Visibility gain by an spell actually is a new idea as far as i remember. As is the idear to turn a unit invisible by Magic (could be used in the Shadow Sphere for example). So we would be most gratefull on proposals that contain new mechanics. The Sphere and spellname is of minor interest for the time beeing. So if you have good ideas for what a spell could do keep them coming. That what we actually need. Make sure through that there are no similar spells already planned. (Meaning read the entire thread first )

 

[upthorn]

The Visibility gain by an spell actually is a new idea as far as i remember.

Isn't that what Levitate is planned to do?
From the first page:

Force Sphere

Sorcery 1. Levitate- Allows the caster a brief glimpse of everything in a 3 tile radius.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

A generall idea for conjugers and/or arch-mages: Maybe each of them can summon a familiar unit once in his lifetime. It would get bonuses according to the promotions of the caster and stay till it's killed. To make it special it could be the only summon unit that is allowed to gain levels through combat and even be able to cast level I spells.

 

[DMN]

I think a familiar would be a cool idea, especially if it could learn minor spells itself. Familiars would probably not be too different from warrior-adepts, but I love the flavor of that idea. (Hell, I even give my high-level archmages and summoners unique names. Personal magical pets for each of them would be even more fun. *g*)

 

[c.fe]

Yepp exacty. You are only allowed to cast spells that actually have an effect. If all your units have enchanted weapons (all melee units it is) why cast it again .

Agreed . So mana costs for spells are perhaps a bit more complicate but they they still allow more finetuning especially for powerful spells - as you can't cast them every turn.

 

[loki1232]

Law, Sor II: Iron Rule-target unit gains the enforcer promotion (reduces maintnance in cities. Gives +1 unhappiness as well).

Water, Div I: Stormy seas-all ships in target non-coastal and non-control water space have a 25% chance of dying.

Life, Sum I: Unicorn-a medium strength mounted unit that terraforms the terrain it is on if it wins a battle.

 

[Kael]

Law, Sor II: Iron Rule-target unit gains the enforcer promotion (reduces maintnance in cities. Gives +1 unhappiness as well).

I love this idea but this is currently the only Bannor specifc mechanic. And the Bannor arent getting any love in the poll.

I think this spell should probably be as you recommended, but we need a to flavor the bannor up. You want to take a shot at them?

Water, Div I: Stormy seas-all ships in target non-coastal and non-control water space have a 25% chance of dying.

I think this is a great idea for a permanent terrain. The spell permanetly changes the tile to the "stormy" version that minorly damages ships of non-overlords civs that pass through it. That way overlords civs can use it to guard their seas much as the fellowship uses ancient forests.

The spell would remain as the method they origionally create the tiles. What do you think?

Life, Sum I: Unicorn-a medium strength mounted unit that terraforms the terrain it is on if it wins a battle.

No unicorns.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

No unicorns.

Not even when they are completly insane? Using their horns to open up the bodies of fallen enemies to feast on the wobbly bits inside?

 

[Chalid]

Does anyone know Earthdawn? I've only the German version of the Creature Book, but there Unicorns are Carnivores. A free translation of the description is like:
Horns covered with blook. Dirty fur. Feared by everyone. Unlike other animals they do not kill for food but they kill as they enjoy it. They hunt in small gruops and are able to bring down animals much largen then themselves. Their intellicence even alloes them to hunt down !Dragons!. The most fearsome thing through is that when they hat tasted the flesh of humans once nothin else is good enough for them. So they hide at roads and trick humans away to feed on them. Sometimes hordes of them eradicate entire villages in the night.

 

[loki1232]

I love this idea but this is currently the only Bannor specifc mechanic. And the Bannor arent getting any love in the poll.

1. I think this spell should probably be as you recommended, but we need a to flavor the bannor up. You want to take a shot at them?

2. I think this is a great idea for a permanent terrain. The spell permanetly changes the tile to the "stormy" version that minorly damages ships of non-overlords civs that pass through it. That way overlords civs can use it to guard their seas much as the fellowship uses ancient forests.

The spell would remain as the method they origionally create the tiles. What do you think?

3. No unicorns.

1. Sure. i've been working on the balseraphs, but they don't really need it.

2. I think that this spell should be the only way to create it.


3. Okay.
Life Sum I: Pegasus-
A weak mounted type with -50% against archers. Can fly recon and interception and transport infantry and bombing missions.

 

[Corlindale]

Life Sum I: Pegasus-
A weak mounted type with -50% against archers. Can fly recon and interception and transport infantry and bombing missions.

If unicorns are too cute for a dark fantasy mod, what are pegasi?