Design: Spells

[Kael]

Looking at the list of spell spheres for each civ, I got to thinking...

Aren't the Bannor basically the Order, incarnate? Would it not make sense for their arcane units to receive access to the same spheres as their priests? Life, Spirit, and Fire?

Law totally makes sense, too, though, but the Earth is the bit that confuzzles me.

According to the origional design (which you can see here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3458409&postcount=2) they should probably have Mind, Law and Metamagic. Law is their primary and mind and metamagic are the two closest spheres to Law.

But its hard to get everyone as they should be without having all of the spheres available. I also want to balance out the amount of civs that have fire, earth etc. At some point that came down to having to even it out. As we add the rest of the spell spheres I expect that they will make more sense.

I choose to give the Bannor earth because I wanted their spellcasters to be naturally more conservative and I wanted them to rely on their priests for the more aggresive spells. That way Bannor players will be more likely to more into either the Order or Veil to get a little spellcasting muscle, or declare crusades and do it with arms, or convert a node to fire and build fire casters anyway.

 

[MrUnderhill]

Sorcery 1. Blind- Reduces target's visibility range by 2 and withdrawal rate by 50%. Can be resisted and extended.
Sorcery 2. Invisibility- Makes caster invisible for 3 turns.
Sorcery 3. Unplottable Terrain- Hides affected city.

Summoning 1. Illusion- Creates an identical unit to the caster with 0 strength and Summoned.
Summoning 2. Mark of the Moon- A counterbalance to Mark of the Sun. No stats yet.

Divine 1. Dark Haven(Veil)- Provides friendly units in the stack with +50% withdrawal rate until they move. Also hides the tile the caster is on if it's a forest.
Divine 2. Shadow Cloak(Veil)- Allows caster to move through rival territory in peace-time for 3 turns. If they're caught in enemy lands after 4 turns, they are instantly killed and a "You spied on us!" diplomacy penalty is issued.

The basic idea is "death from a distance", where mages can sit just outside of an enemy's visibity range and toss spells at them with virtual impunity. After all, how can you fight something if you can't see it? I found that this fit in with the Svartalfar pretty nicely.

 

[loki1232]

Water Div I:
Voices of the Deep-Castable only in a city, kills one pop and gives +75 culture.

Or maybe-Voices of the Deep:
Caster becomes crazed, caster grows a level. Only useable when next to water. If caster is already crazed then crazes another unit in the caster's stack. cannot be cast if all units in caster's stack are crazed.

 

[Jono]

Water Div I:
Voices of the Deep-Castable only in a city, kills one pop and gives +75 culture.

Or maybe-Voices of the Deep:
Caster becomes crazed, caster grows a level. Only useable when next to water. If caster is already crazed then crazes another unit in the caster's stack. cannot be cast if all units in caster's stack are crazed.

How about this:
Voices from the Deep: Target living unit becomes crazed and receives a bonus (unknown bonus) when attacking into a tile with access to water.

 

[eerr]

meta magic level 1 ability
-node tap ability(not spell, this does not cause casted)
the magic user taps the node he is over to increase the power of his spells
the mana node becomes depeleted for x number of turns (at least 5)

pure mana node
- at level 1-loses casted promotion
at level 3-gains a promotion like spellstaff and the above


metamagic
-spells become more powerful, summons and spells icombat are increased by 1

other nodes
magic user gains 1 promotion in the sphere and loses his best promotion in the sphere after 2 turns

 

[loki1232]

I like it.

 

[Jono]

IMO, the Metamagic sphere should be revealed by a "Manhatten Project"-like wonder. It would allow all civs to create a national unit which would be able to cast metamagic spells and nothing else.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

I don't know where this would fit (maybe instead of summon tiger, which is weird as a sorcery spell anyway) but my girlfriend wants to have a ability to make her captured animals more usefull in the mid and late game:

So here it goes:

Create Chimera (or how this is spelled in english)

- The animal gets turned into a man-animal hybrid thing (beast class unitcombat), should keep all of it's promotions

- Destroys the caster

The spell opens up a lot of new beast-units (can't think of all the names yet - but spider-man seems a little bit silly )

Spider -> iCombat 8, can cast entangle

Tiger -> Tigran: iCombat 9, bonus against recon units

Lion -> iCombat 6, bonus vs. melee units

Bear -> iCombat 12

Wolf -> Ravenous Werewolf

usw... (all ideas and numers are the first things that came to my mind, so they probably should be balanced...)

 

[QES]

I don't know where this would fit (maybe instead of summon tiger, which is weird as a sorcery spell anyway) but my girlfriend wants to have a ability to make her captured animals more usefull in the mid and late game:

So here it goes:

Create Chimera (or how this is spelled in english)

- The animal gets turned into a man-animal hybrid thing (beast class unitcombat), should keep all of it's promotions

- Destroys the caster

The spell opens up a lot of new beast-units (can't think of all the names yet - but spider-man seems a little bit silly )

Spider -> iCombat 8, can cast entangle

Tiger -> Tigran: iCombat 9, bonus against recon units

Lion -> iCombat 6, bonus vs. melee units

Bear -> iCombat 12

Wolf -> Ravenous Werewolf

usw... (all ideas and numers are the first things that came to my mind, so they probably should be balanced...)

I like this idea. Which type of caster would be able to do it, summoner/conjurer? Or Mage/archmage? Or Divine. I think divine would be best for "Shape changers." Also Maybe the Chimera gets to keep the spells the former caster possessed.

Anyway for "renames" i can help there.

Arachnoid -> iCombat 10, can cast entangle but runs away, as per normal spider behavior. (Requires Giant Spider and Priest)

Tigran : iCombat 9, bonus against recon units (Requires Tiger
and Priest)

Sphinx -> iCombat 6, bonus vs. melee units, fear promotion (Requires Lion and Priest)

Werebear -> iCombat 12, Can turn other killed creatures into wearbears - maybe a smaller % chance than werewolves (Requires Bear And priest)

Ravenous Werewolf -> As per normal (Requires Wolf and Priest)

Just some polishing ideas.
-Qes

EDIT: OR maybe instead of Priests, Only druids are able to do it. Druids or Beastmaster line people, perhaps someone ELSE must cast the spell? I like the shapechanger ideas, something must be able to come out of it. It'd be cool if the druid/caster could "Consume the animal" and then have a spell in which they could transform into them, but another spell in that form to transform back.

 

[eerr]

metamagic 3 sorcery spell-



**energy purge

*all negative promotions and enchantments are removed on all units in nearby, all those units take x hp of damage (half with magic resistence)for each negative promotion and gain y hp for each enchantment lost.

-this provides a way you can use to eliminate enchantments from your enemies, or renew your enchanted armies, or purge your armies of fatal condition


or alternatively
*units in targeted tile gain the casted and exhausted(cannot attack-does not effect golems) promotion

-this will stop a stack in its tracks, combine with entangle to stop an enemy offensive altogether

 

[Corlindale]

I really like that Chimera idea. I'm not sure if it should create werecreatures, though, I think it's better to keep that feature restricted to the Baron, so that werewolves won't become too common, and that you have to make a real effort to get access to them. Perhaps let it create a wolfman or a bearman instead.
I take it these creatures do not retain their priest spells?

Another way to use the Chimera-concept would be to have the spell require 1 of each type of animal in the casters square, and then they'd be molded together to create a very powerful 5-headed beast with various abilities. That spell shouldn't kill the caster. It would make a good reward for someone who manages to collect all creature types, and it wouldn't be overpowered as even the most hunter-focused civ would rarely be able to create more than 2 or 3.

 

[QES]

I really like that Chimera idea. I'm not sure if it should create werecreatures, though, I think it's better to keep that feature restricted to the Baron, so that werewolves won't become too common, and that you have to make a real effort to get access to them. Perhaps let it create a wolfman or a bearman instead.
I take it these creatures do not retain their priest spells?

Another way to use the Chimera-concept would be to have the spell require 1 of each type of animal in the casters square, and then they'd be molded together to create a very powerful 5-headed beast with various abilities. That spell shouldn't kill the caster. It would make a good reward for someone who manages to collect all creature types, and it wouldn't be overpowered as even the most hunter-focused civ would rarely be able to create more than 2 or 3.

Maybe seperate the ideas. If you collect creatures, you can create chimera.
If you wanna be a shapechanger (transform back and forth) that'd be cool too. How to implement shape changing, clearly you need the intended animal, a caster and a spell to do it. But what advantages of turning into an animal? The animal could be more powerful, of course. Any ideas?
-Qes

 

[loki1232]

I really like these ideas.

IMO it should work like this:
Replacing the summon tiger spell is--
Animal bond
Can only be cast when in a square with a captured animal.
Captured animal is destroyed.
At any point in the future this caster may "transform" into the captured animal. iCombat is kept the same, but different anim. He can no longer cast spells, but keeps his promotions. Treated as a barbarian unit by barbs and other civs (if possible, if not just give civ3 hidden nationality).
If bonded to multiple animals he turns into the strongest (gets that anim), but gets +50% strength for each other bonded animal.

What do you guys think? I think it has a lot of potential and could be very fun. Especially for a 7 strength archmage that you want for combat instead.

 

[Gamestation]

Three ideas I have for spells/abilities:

Metamagic 3 (sorcery): Mana Freak
Caster becomes a beast of mana crystals. Able to cast any sorcery spell but will die eventually if it uses itself up. Can tap mana nodes and other arcane units to restore power. When the mana beast dies, a new mana resource is created. Every turn the mana beast is losing power.

Sun 3 (sorcery): Commune with the Stars
Reveals all enemy civs' naval units. Useful for tracking down enemy naval reinforcements and makes it feasible to make naval units that can move 9 spaces a turn.

Force 3 (sorcery): Blackhole
Forces an enemy unit to attack the tile the caster is on. Withdraw bonuses ignored. Use it when the caster has an extremely powerful defender in the same tile.

 

[eerr]

you could add a new sphere based entirely on neutral mana, that can be learned by all casters

this would open more slots for general spells useable by all the magic user classes
it would also open up more spells that seem to fit areas like force magic and meta magic but are really not aligned to an attribute

 

[QES]

I really like these ideas.

IMO it should work like this:
Replacing the summon tiger spell is--
Animal bond
Can only be cast when in a square with a captured animal.
Captured animal is destroyed.
At any point in the future this caster may "transform" into the captured animal. iCombat is kept the same, but different anim. He can no longer cast spells, but keeps his promotions. Treated as a barbarian unit by barbs and other civs (if possible, if not just give civ3 hidden nationality).
If bonded to multiple animals he turns into the strongest (gets that anim), but gets +50% strength for each other bonded animal.

What do you guys think? I think it has a lot of potential and could be very fun. Especially for a 7 strength archmage that you want for combat instead.

The problem with a straight cross, like an archmage to a tiger, is that by the time archmages are available, tigers arnt powerful enough to want to turn into. There should be a benefit of turning into it "for combat" Maybe it has icombat equal to or slightly above the average of the technolgical period, and the shapeshifter can switch back to be able to cast spells. this would give casters a means to grow exp (by attacking things in their animal form) outside the norm. Still icombat should be decent for whatever age this is available in. The "cool" factor is that its also a caster, the "cost" factor is in that its limited either in number, or requires complex spells/unit requirements to meet.
-Qes

 

[loki1232]

OKAY, IGNORE MY EARLIER POST

I'm starting to think that it would work better as a divine spell (move entangle to sorcery perhaps?). That means that it would be available to fellowship priests, and alsoto the nature recon units. I'm thinking that any nature recon unit (ranger, druid, beastmaster) can "bond" with an animal. This gives him a +25% strength promotion. Each bond stacks, so they can become very powerful. Bonding of course destroys the captured animal.

I think that this is a fine use of captured animals late in the game and is easier to balance than turning into animals would be, and easierto teach to the ai.

 

[QES]

OKAY, IGNORE MY EARLIER POST

I'm starting to think that it would work better as a divine spell (move entangle to sorcery perhaps?). That means that it would be available to fellowship priests, and alsoto the nature recon units. I'm thinking that any nature recon unit (ranger, druid, beastmaster) can "bond" with an animal. This gives him a +25% strength promotion. Each bond stacks, so they can become very powerful. Bonding of course destroys the captured animal.

I think that this is a fine use of captured animals late in the game and is easier to balance than turning into animals would be, and easierto teach to the ai.

Oo, i hadnt thought about the AI. I like your idea about bonding. Maybe each type of creature, instead of 25% adds 15% plus some creature specific bonus?
Like wolves ad withdraw %, maybe lions add first-strike chance?, Maybe leopards make the recon unit a commando. Tiger's could add woodsman II? And maybe bears just add another 15% (for 30% total) Spider's could add "hidden nationality" whenever that works?
Each animal would have a flavor with that bonus.
-Qes

EDIT: Also i think that "summons" shouldnt bestow this bonus, summoned tigers for example. BUt, if a recon unit was able to kill one of each, he'd be uber if bonded. That'd be 105% bonus, plus all the little extras. Not bad considering it doesnt gobble up exp. And Lo, the miserly upgraded scout turned beastmaster who's killed one of everything would be a force to behold. 150xp PLUS these bonuses? But of course, its balanced, cause the unit had to earn every last bit of it.

 

[QES]

Spell Concepts:
Dire Wounding - The first round of combat target unit does double normal damage.

Snipershots - Every "first strike" round of combat, has its damage doubled.

This was based on those life spark ideas, and stone skin (which would wind up trumping this)

It'd make hidden, scout and archer units very interesting and potentially powerful. This could either be a very HIGH level set of promotions, or a spell, i prefer spell. Maybe Air sphere?

-Qes

 

[loki1232]

Yeah, i like your animal specific ideas. Summoned tigers wouldn't work.

Oh, i was also thinking that a unit could only bond with each type of animal once.