Kael
Deity
Chalid said:
Thats a good idea, I'll add it.
Design: Units
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Thats a good idea, I'll add it.
Kael
Deity
C.Roland,
For some reaosn I have a 7-12 second pause whenever it goes to display either the circus tent or the elven warrior units you made. It only happens the first time it displays per game (I assume the game has it cached after that). Are there a lot of poly's used in those or any idea why they are so slow to load. I havent noticed it with any of your other models.
For some reaosn I have a 7-12 second pause whenever it goes to display either the circus tent or the elven warrior units you made. It only happens the first time it displays per game (I assume the game has it cached after that). Are there a lot of poly's used in those or any idea why they are so slow to load. I havent noticed it with any of your other models.
Chalid
Black Dragon
As our mages got substantial upgrades in the last days and weeks i wonder hoe powerfull they are at the moment? It might be necessary to make mages and summoners into national units (maybe 6 or 9 per player) so that mages are still supporting units and not the sole fighting force. What do you think?
I actually have not really played with the new magic system as im busy creating graphics, but it nevertheless came to my mind.
I actually have not really played with the new magic system as im busy creating graphics, but it nevertheless came to my mind.
Kael
Deity
Chalid said:
I just put in the marksman ability. Im hoping it is a good counter against mage units. Also I hope that the mages become more versitile, but not more powerful (with phase 1's adepts, fireballs, summon demons and meteor swarms representing the most powerful spells available).
We may raise the cost of mages, but I dont want to make them national units. I f a player wants to try to make an army full of mages I want him to be able to do it, it just needs to be no more effective than an armor full of melee units.
Chalid
Black Dragon
Japp thats of course an reasonable alternative. And probably lower their combat strength too (if not already happened) so that Marksmen and Shadows really target them. 
Kael
Deity
Chalid said:Japp thats of course an reasonable alternative. And probably lower their combat strength too (if not already happened) so that Marksmen and Shadows really target them.
There strength was lowered in 1.10b so they should be easily targetable.
Kael
Deity
Okay, I just added in the ability to be able to upgrade to units, but not be able to build them. So now we can make it so you can't build archmages, instead you have to upgrade a level 6 or greater mage to an archmage (along with all the other requirements).
If we do this with units we will remove the building requirement for the t4 units. I would like to have some units only upgradeable and some buildable (with a building requirement). We also have to determine at what level they should be able to be upgraded (or we can leave it at 0 and they could be upgraded as soon as the tech is researched and they have enough gold).
Here are the units:
HEAVY CROSSBOWMAN
ARQUEBUS
FLURRY
MARSKMAN
ARCHMAGE
DEMON SUMMONER
HIGH_PRIEST
INQISITOR
MONK
PALADIN
WAR ELEPHANT
CAMEL ARCHER
KNIGHT
WAR CHARIOT
SHIELD WALL
IMMORTAL
SPARATORI
BERSERKER
What do you guys think?
If we do this with units we will remove the building requirement for the t4 units. I would like to have some units only upgradeable and some buildable (with a building requirement). We also have to determine at what level they should be able to be upgraded (or we can leave it at 0 and they could be upgraded as soon as the tech is researched and they have enough gold).
Here are the units:
HEAVY CROSSBOWMAN
ARQUEBUS
FLURRY
MARSKMAN
ARCHMAGE
DEMON SUMMONER
HIGH_PRIEST
INQISITOR
MONK
PALADIN
WAR ELEPHANT
CAMEL ARCHER
KNIGHT
WAR CHARIOT
SHIELD WALL
IMMORTAL
SPARATORI
BERSERKER
What do you guys think?
Corlindale
Emperor
The problem I see with having level requirements for upgrades is that it'll be very hard to mobilize an army quickly in the event of a war-declaration. If you haven't been very big on military early game, and your warmongering neighbour decides to attack, you'll have next to no way of defeating him, since all the units you train will be inferior to his, and have no chance of obtaining the xp they need to get better. So you'd have almost no chance of winning, instead of the small chance you have as it is now.
I think the lvl req fits archmages well, but for other units it should either not be there, or not be terribly high(for example, if it was as low as lvl 3 or 4, you could just use civics and buildings to get units that lvl directly from training).
I think the lvl req fits archmages well, but for other units it should either not be there, or not be terribly high(for example, if it was as low as lvl 3 or 4, you could just use civics and buildings to get units that lvl directly from training).
Lunargent
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2006
- Messages
- 299
I agree with Corlindale that early warmongers would have a huge advantage.
What I propose is to have a scaling cost system to upgrade a unit to teir 4:
level 10- Free (these guys are pretty tough, experienced, and rare, and should be freely promotable once the tech is available)
level 9- 10% cost
level 8- 20% cost
level 7- 30% cost
etc.
This will of course have to be balanced, but it gives peacefull civs more options, while reflecting that warmongers will be better at war. (though the peacfull civ might have more gold, so hopefully it will work out perfectly with the right numbers)
I love the fact that there won't be so many building requirements for units. I think we should keep the higher tier buildings in though, purely as optional bonus buildings though. (bowyer still gives +2xp to archers, but is now an entirely optional way to specialize your cities)
What I propose is to have a scaling cost system to upgrade a unit to teir 4:
level 10- Free (these guys are pretty tough, experienced, and rare, and should be freely promotable once the tech is available)
level 9- 10% cost
level 8- 20% cost
level 7- 30% cost
etc.
This will of course have to be balanced, but it gives peacefull civs more options, while reflecting that warmongers will be better at war. (though the peacfull civ might have more gold, so hopefully it will work out perfectly with the right numbers)
I love the fact that there won't be so many building requirements for units. I think we should keep the higher tier buildings in though, purely as optional bonus buildings though. (bowyer still gives +2xp to archers, but is now an entirely optional way to specialize your cities)
loki1232
Loki
Here are the units:
HEAVY CROSSBOWMAN-Buildable
ARQUEBUS-Upgrade at level 4
FLURRY-Upgrade at level 4
MARSKMAN-Upgrade at level 5
ARCHMAGE-Upgrade at level 6
DEMON SUMMONER-Buildable
HIGH_PRIEST-Buildable
INQISITOR-Buildable
MONK-Buildable
PALADIN-Builaable
WAR ELEPHANT-Upgrade at level 5
CAMEL ARCHER-Upgrade at level 4
KNIGHT-Upgrade at level 5
WAR CHARIOT-Buildable
SHIELD WALL-Upgrade at level 4
IMMORTAL-Upgrade at level 6
SPARATORI-Upgrade at level 4
BERSERKER-Buildable
Beastmaster-Upgrade at level 4
Shadow-Upgrade at level 4
Saboteur-Upgrade at level 3
Druid-Buildable
My reasons:
1. All of the religious units are buildable. I feel that this is nice for the people who want to be able to cast divine spells more easily
2. Out of the 4 unit types, I made at least 1 be buildable, so that even peaceful early game civs can get some t4 units of each type. Generally I made the really good units upgradeable, and the "exotic" units as well. I left druids as buildable because they are non-combat units in a way and thus I want all peaceful players to be able to build them. I think that this way works nicely, although it might be hard to get the Ai to understand, and it might mean that the buildable units just flood the board. Perhaps they should instead be Upgrade at level 1 instead.
HEAVY CROSSBOWMAN-Buildable
ARQUEBUS-Upgrade at level 4
FLURRY-Upgrade at level 4
MARSKMAN-Upgrade at level 5
ARCHMAGE-Upgrade at level 6
DEMON SUMMONER-Buildable
HIGH_PRIEST-Buildable
INQISITOR-Buildable
MONK-Buildable
PALADIN-Builaable
WAR ELEPHANT-Upgrade at level 5
CAMEL ARCHER-Upgrade at level 4
KNIGHT-Upgrade at level 5
WAR CHARIOT-Buildable
SHIELD WALL-Upgrade at level 4
IMMORTAL-Upgrade at level 6
SPARATORI-Upgrade at level 4
BERSERKER-Buildable
Beastmaster-Upgrade at level 4
Shadow-Upgrade at level 4
Saboteur-Upgrade at level 3
Druid-Buildable
My reasons:
1. All of the religious units are buildable. I feel that this is nice for the people who want to be able to cast divine spells more easily
2. Out of the 4 unit types, I made at least 1 be buildable, so that even peaceful early game civs can get some t4 units of each type. Generally I made the really good units upgradeable, and the "exotic" units as well. I left druids as buildable because they are non-combat units in a way and thus I want all peaceful players to be able to build them. I think that this way works nicely, although it might be hard to get the Ai to understand, and it might mean that the buildable units just flood the board. Perhaps they should instead be Upgrade at level 1 instead.
Chalid
Black Dragon
I like Lokis rule that for each class one should be buildable.
For the archers i would choose the Arquebuese as a new Weapon comes to play and rifles were so successfull as troops with rifles were quite easy to train.
For the melee troops i'd prefer Shieldwall as buildable and berserker as upgrade. this leaves peacekeepers with a strong defensive unit.
With riders Elephant as buildable.
All the caster types should be upgradeable as each one is getting high level mages because the do autopromote. This adds the summoner as Upgrade and i would like quite a hight level as for archmage too. Level 7 or even 8 come to my mind.
With the religious units im not so shure. High Priest seems to be a candidate for upgrading at high level (hes a caster and should get some wisdom before speaking directly to the gods).
For the other religious ones i like them to be buildable.
About druids i to think that they should be buildable as they are a complete new type of unit somehow.
For the archers i would choose the Arquebuese as a new Weapon comes to play and rifles were so successfull as troops with rifles were quite easy to train.
For the melee troops i'd prefer Shieldwall as buildable and berserker as upgrade. this leaves peacekeepers with a strong defensive unit.
With riders Elephant as buildable.
All the caster types should be upgradeable as each one is getting high level mages because the do autopromote. This adds the summoner as Upgrade and i would like quite a hight level as for archmage too. Level 7 or even 8 come to my mind.
With the religious units im not so shure. High Priest seems to be a candidate for upgrading at high level (hes a caster and should get some wisdom before speaking directly to the gods).
For the other religious ones i like them to be buildable.
About druids i to think that they should be buildable as they are a complete new type of unit somehow.
Kael
Deity
I think for the next version I'll test the following:
Archmage- requires level 6
High Priest- requires level 6
Immortal- require level 6 (with the mithril requirement removed)
Summoner- requires level 6
Conjurer- requires level 3
Mage- requires level 3
All of these auto-generate xp (except for the immortal) so even non-aggresive civs will be able to access these units, though they will have to maintain a reasonable army (not warring is no excuse for not keeping an up to date army).
As Im sure you will notice this also keeps civs form being able to build mages and conjurers. Instead every mage starts as an adept and has to work his way up.
I want to try it out in the next version. If you guys dont like it, I'll change it.
Archmage- requires level 6
High Priest- requires level 6
Immortal- require level 6 (with the mithril requirement removed)
Summoner- requires level 6
Conjurer- requires level 3
Mage- requires level 3
All of these auto-generate xp (except for the immortal) so even non-aggresive civs will be able to access these units, though they will have to maintain a reasonable army (not warring is no excuse for not keeping an up to date army).
As Im sure you will notice this also keeps civs form being able to build mages and conjurers. Instead every mage starts as an adept and has to work his way up.
I want to try it out in the next version. If you guys dont like it, I'll change it.
Kael
Deity
Should a lunatic be buildable or should you have to upgrade a slave to make one?
Chalid
Black Dragon
As i read about the unitclasses some seconds ago i want to call a idea of mine back into the minds. Is there a way to make Promotions work against promotions? Talchas?
Then we could make Races (and states as undead) into promotios that would be kept during upgrade.
Original idea: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3876226&postcount=118
Then we could make Races (and states as undead) into promotios that would be kept during upgrade.
Original idea: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3876226&postcount=118
Kael
Deity
Chalid said:
Im just begining to play with the precombat effects right now. Marksman, Fear and Charm are all promotion based effects that trigger before combat. I can use the same tactic to check the defender for a promotion and apply a positive or negative promotion based on it.
So, now that I am a bit more C++ savy (which is to say Ive graduated from amish to noob) I think this is doable.
Kael
Deity
Chalid said:
So if we did this we would remove the racial unitcombats from the game and assign promotions based on the race. Then we would create 2 positive promotions against each unit type (+40% and +80%). In the combat code I would check for the promotions, then check to see if the opponent has the racial opponent and apply the appropriate bonus.
So we wouldnt have:
Demon
Dwarf
Elf
Orc
Undead
Hmm...
Chalid
Black Dragon
We possibly might reduce the gain to +20% if we do it, as the normal promotions like shock would apply also. And we'd consider humans a race, too, i suppose.
