Design: Wonders

[loki1232]

I think this mod needs more end game wonders; there isnt much left in the end for industrial civs. Some ideas: a wonder who increase by 1 the limit of national units; a hogwart-like wonder who spawn mages every x turns ; a wonder who causes a golden age for everyone; etc. Compared to the number of techs, this mod has less W than other mods... Bad, cause i play industrial!

Have you tried the armeggedon spells? They're wonders.

 

[Xuenay]

Should the Catacomb Libralus still place a Library in each city, or a Mage's Guild? The Civilopedia page says Mage's Guild, while the first post of this topic says Library.

 

[eerr]

I believe it was changed to mage guilds
librarys were probably too powerful, and some civs could get librarys that couldn't build them normally(clan of embers?), messed with kurioate settlements ect...

 

[Silmeran]

But in any case, apoc and blight both would make me turn off armageddon when I play once the toggle is there, as they are very unfair and bug me too much. It's a shame, I feel, because I like the other armageddon spells, even wrath, for they are mostly balanced, possible to counter, and fun to play with.

Right now, apoc and blight seriously detract from the end-game for me. I hate having to go into the world-editor to remove cities that are working on them if I can't afford the sabotoge cost or cannot go to war. Blight does permanent un-repairable damage to your lands- you can't get the lost food resources back no matter how you micro your druids. Apoc removes half of your military, then throws you into war. (though the version of 1.0 I have makes it do nothing) I once lost my entire navy and all the units it was transporting.

Game engine: Congratulations! you've just lost half of your units and half of your cities' population!
Me: what did I do to win this fabulous prize?
Game engine: absolutely nothing, another civ you had a defensive pact with did it for you!
Me: awesome, thanks game engine!

Apoc is better than blight though, except for lost hero units, you can recover from the damage at least. But it still bothers me.

Anyways, I've taken to beating up any financial civs I come across, since they're always the ones unleashing these two spells. It seems to work well, especially if I see Sable. He's been the one to unleash them 90% of the time. And he always signs defensive pacts with half the planet once he gets going, making beating him up early the only option.

well I'm totally agree. Wrath Unleashed is very fun idea (of course not to the civ that meet the Avatar) and the most important that it makes sense, when you are behind a leader, build Wrath and pray that Avatar will wipe him out and will not come for you. But Apocalypse or Blight not so useful, and unfortunately not bring any fun in gameplay.

 

[Psychorg]

I do realize that there are several Armageddon spells already, so if you do not want another, I'll fully understand. If, on the other hand, you do, I have an idea for an Armageddon spell with a slightly unusual mechanic. The spell will be called 'Breaking the Seals' and will do... nothing. However, in addition to this spell, there will be several national wonders called the seals. You could for instance have 'The Seal of Fire' which requires fire mana to be built. It does nothing on its own, but if you have it and cast 'Breaking the Seals' it will turn all plains into deserts. Similarly, if you have 'The Seal of Life' and break it, all your units will gain the immortal promotion. This mechanic would allow players to customize their own Armageddon spell to suit the specific needs of the moment.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

Small idea on the duplicate fire fire mana from eternal flames:

Upon completion all fire nodes are destroyed and can only be rebuilt when the city with eternal flames is razed. So there would be 3 fire mana left for the whole world - so the wonder becomes powerful because all nations that you don't trade your fire mana will need a extra promotion to get fireballs and meteors, the most effective spells in the game.

 

[Silverkiss]

Good idea Frozen-Vomit, it would make the wonder a lot more worth building

 

[loki1232]

I just visited stonehenge today, and I think that we just have to include something like that in FfH. Maybe a very early wonder that gives science and culture bonuses?

 

[Jono]

As long as you bring the stones from 2,000 miles away

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

I'm sure someting like this has already been proposed. But I got to thinking about Massada, the ancient Jewish hilltop fort, and the huge ramp the Romans built to get close enough to threaten the actual fort. The fort was so strong it took months to build the huge ramp needed to threaten it.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alansven.ohman/page8.html

In Civ terms both the superpowerful fort and the ramp used to siege it could be considered Wonders. Elaborate, elegant super-citadels are certanly part of the fantasy world (Minas Tirith) so maybe there's a place for one in FfH?

But how to build a 'Wonder' that it really a giant siege weapon? Well, maybe we (i.e. u) don't have to. The game already includes the Trojan Horse. It's a unique unit, so it can fill the bill.

Caer Decayshus +100% to 125% Defense, +8 to +10 +1 or +2 Great Commander, I do not know if it is codeable, but I really like the idea that this thing would reduce an attacking unit's chance to successfully Withdraw. If that's not codeable, perhaps it could simply be given the Malkim fireball tower effect. cost, Stone/Marble bonus TBD. Perhaps requires Earth mana to build? There's all sorts of ways to balance out making one city a real mutha to assault.

The structure should have a strong effect, under the theory that one thing that will persuade your average rural dweller to swear fealty to your city, is the owndership of the finest fortification ever built. Quite the persuasive criterion, when the local Orcs set out to alieviate population pressures caused by yet another baby orc boom.

And to provide the sheet of paper to threaten this rock, perhaps the Trojan Horse can be tweaked a bit? Here I'm a bit short of specifics. Though if it were possible for the units inside the Horse to attack with a +City Assault bonus, that might work.

Like I said, a super-fort is about as obvious an idea as go can get, but what they hey. Any interest in such a thing?

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

Small idea on the duplicate fire fire mana from eternal flames:

Upon completion all fire nodes are destroyed and can only be rebuilt when the city with eternal flames is razed. So there would be 3 fire mana left for the whole world - so the wonder becomes powerful because all nations that you don't trade your fire mana will need a extra promotion to get fireballs and meteors, the most effective spells in the game.

Nice idea!

 

[QES]

I just visited stonehenge today, and I think that we just have to include something like that in FfH. Maybe a very early wonder that gives science and culture bonuses?

How about gives 3 free sage specialists in the creating city?
-Qes

 

[QES]

I'm sure someting like this has already been proposed. But I got to thinking about Massada, the ancient Jewish hilltop fort, and the huge ramp the Romans built to get close enough to threaten the actual fort. The fort was so strong it took months to build the huge ramp needed to threaten it.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alansven.ohman/page8.html

In Civ terms both the superpowerful fort and the ramp used to siege it could be considered Wonders. Elaborate, elegant super-citadels are certanly part of the fantasy world (Minas Tirith) so maybe there's a place for one in FfH?

But how to build a 'Wonder' that it really a giant siege weapon? Well, maybe we (i.e. u) don't have to. The game already includes the Trojan Horse. It's a unique unit, so it can fill the bill.

Caer Decayshus +100% to 125% Defense, +8 to +10 +1 or +2 Great Commander, I do not know if it is codeable, but I really like the idea that this thing would reduce an attacking unit's chance to successfully Withdraw. If that's not codeable, perhaps it could simply be given the Malkim fireball tower effect. cost, Stone/Marble bonus TBD. Perhaps requires Earth mana to build? There's all sorts of ways to balance out making one city a real mutha to assault.

The structure should have a strong effect, under the theory that one thing that will persuade your average rural dweller to swear fealty to your city, is the owndership of the finest fortification ever built. Quite the persuasive criterion, when the local Orcs set out to alieviate population pressures caused by yet another baby orc boom.

And to provide the sheet of paper to threaten this rock, perhaps the Trojan Horse can be tweaked a bit? Here I'm a bit short of specifics. Though if it were possible for the units inside the Horse to attack with a +City Assault bonus, that might work.

Like I said, a super-fort is about as obvious an idea as go can get, but what they hey. Any interest in such a thing?

Or how about a "fort" wonder, that provides +500% against non-seige units. Therefore seige units would be a requirement. Maybe even protect against collateral-damage? Is it possible to code in somethign that would prevent collateral damage? I like this idea, if its a one-city wonder, and it should be explored.
-Qes

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

Or how about a "fort" wonder, that provides +500% against non-seige units. Therefore seige units would be a requirement. Maybe even protect against collateral-damage? Is it possible to code in somethign that would prevent collateral damage? I like this idea, if its a one-city wonder, and it should be explored.
-Qes

I think a fortification that limited colateral damage would be a terrific concept.

Though I still like the idea that for one city in the world at least, the guy with all the 85%-95% Withdrawal units will have to think twice or even three times before launching the standard softening-up cavalry charges. I've got nothing against cavalry charges. It's just that I am unaware of anything in the game that can counteract the Withdrawal promotion/tactic. So here's a chance to throw in a unique twist.

Now, the same sentiment applies to your colateral-damage limitation too. You'll need more than a couple tough units to lead the charge and break the best defenders. This could lead to some heap big bloody battles at that city tile.

Option: Make either or both options a buildable defense layer, like the existing Ring of Warding thing. Civs growing up next to the traditional horsemen peoples might be motivatexd to research a special defense for their cities, for example.

For the Wonder, just wap all the goodies into one enchilada.

 

[Sareln]

Concerning a superfortress: I think it would be really cool if the wonder also spawned 2 - 3 super-defenders to man the fortress, similar to the runeguard (0 movement ). That way you now have a superfortress manned by an elite gaurd (who I might point out can be given a nifty name like "Defender of the ______"). That's just for flavor coolness though...

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

Concerning a superfortress: I think it would be really cool if the wonder also spawned 2 - 3 super-defenders to man the fortress, similar to the runeguard (0 movement ). That way you now have a superfortress manned by an elite gaurd (who I might point out can be given a nifty name like "Defender of the ______"). That's just for flavor coolness though...

That would certaily fit with the Massada inspiration.

 

[lorgen]

I have just started a game with Cassiel. (Who could believe it would be so fun playing without religion....)

I`m just concerned about the happiness when you can`t have a state religion, and that a lot of civics gives citizens for religions that are not your state religion.

Is it possible to include a UW for the Grigori to counter this? For example it could be named "Rejection of the compact" (yes, I just re-read the description of the grigori and how cassiel left Dagda ) +2 in each city, for instance. Other possible names from the top of my head ; "Challenging the Gods" or "Cassiels crusade".

Tech-requirement Philosophy?

 

[loki1232]

How about gives 3 free sage specialists in the creating city?
-Qes

How about 1 free sage and 1 free engineer. Since stonehenge is both an engineering marvel and scientific. Two free specialists is what the great library gives, and stonehenge shouldn't exceed it.
Maybe also +8 culture and +2 great sage points.

 

[loki1232]

What if that wonder could be built by any civ without a state religion, and banned them from getting one? If i wanted to play with agnostic lanun, then let me.
It would be availble midgame.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Caer Decayshus +100% to 125% Defense, +8 to +10 +1 or +2 Great Commander, I do not know if it is codeable, but I really like the idea that this thing would reduce an attacking unit's chance to successfully Withdraw. If that's not codeable, perhaps it could simply be given the Malkim fireball tower effect. cost, Stone/Marble bonus TBD. Perhaps requires Earth mana to build? There's all sorts of ways to balance out making one city a real mutha to assault.

I like the idea of requiring earth mana. Like, "no, let ME try a wall of stone!"

And one way to end withdrawl chance is to make it change the terrain to cost 4 movement points--then only commandos would have any mp left after attacking, and mp are required to withdraw.