Design: Wonders

[loki1232]

Maybe for enchantment you could get an "Enchanted City". Basically economic benefits for that city, but any enemy units in the radius have a chance of being converted.

 

[Kael]

I think that the eternal flame is a great idea. What if there was a wonder for each type of mana? I know that's a pattern, but it would be really cool. Should they still work if you lose the mana?

I do liek the wonders that require mana resources because they are only available to civs that start with the mana and those that convert mana nodes to that mana type. In general they
are almost civ specific wonders, but it is possible for another civ to convert a node and grab the wonder.

 

[loki1232]

I do liek the wonders that require mana resources because they are only available to civs that start with the mana and those that convert mana nodes to that mana type. In general they
are almost civ specific wonders, but it is possible for another civ to convert a node and grab the wonder.

With this wonder grabbing, you keep the wonder if you lose the node, right?

On a different topic i think that a) all of the armegeddon spells should require the right node. b) ice age should start the quest that turns the illians into a big power.

 

[Kael]

With this wonder grabbing, you keep the wonder if you lose the node, right?

On a different topic i think that a) all of the armegeddon spells should require the right node. b) ice age should start the quest that turns the illians into a big power.

Yeap, you keep the wonder.

and I agree, the armageddon spells should require at least 1 mana, maybe several.

 

[loki1232]

and I agree, the armageddon spells should require at least 1 mana, maybe several.

Would you like the amount of nodes to depend on the wonder? Also, maybe when building armegeddon spells your religion could count for an appropriate node (entropy unleashed easiest to build for the AV)

 

[Kael]

Would you like the amount of nodes to depend on the wonder? Also, maybe when building armegeddon spells your religion could count for an appropriate node (entropy unleashed easiest to build for the AV)

Or we could have the holy cities, or the holy city buildings (the ones the prophets build) produce a mana of the right type.

 

[Lunargent]

I had an idea for an improved Apocalypse wonder.

One of my favorite things from vanilla civ is the nuke animation. But nukes don't quite work in FfH, although apoc is the equivalent of nuking all cities in the game for cheap, with no SDI defense allowed.

Apocalypse, allows the creation of the Doombringer unit. These units, when detonated, create an explosion similar to a nuclear blast at their location, causing severe damage and destroying the unit. Completion of this wonder automatically closes all borders with all other civs.

This is balanced, no longer can you nuke all cities in the game easily and cheaply. You must declare war to do so much damage, as it should be. And it brings back the awesome nuke animation!

 

[Lunargent]

I like holy cities producing mana of their specific holy type with the holy building. It makes sure that if you founded a religion, that you can cast the religion's spells, even if you are unlucky with mana nodes.

 

[loki1232]

Or we could have the holy cities, or the holy city buildings (the ones the prophets build) produce a mana of the right type.

Except that many wonders already require the holy city.

 

[loki1232]

I like holy cities producing mana of their specific holy type with the holy building. It makes sure that if you founded a religion, that you can cast the religion's spells, even if you are unlucky with mana nodes.

This i like.

 

[Kael]

I like holy cities producing mana of their specific holy type with the holy building. It makes sure that if you founded a religion, that you can cast the religion's spells, even if you are unlucky with mana nodes.

I was thinking preists will be able to gain their spells regardless of the mana nodes (which are for arcane line). But I still like having the holy city buildings produce mana of the appropriate type. It would signify the civs close relation with that element by boosting all their mages.

 

[loki1232]

IMO some of the holy buildings should produce multiple types of mana.
order-law
runes-earth and enchantment
fellowship-nature , life, and creation
OO-water and mind
AV-entropy and dimensional?

 

[Kael]

IMO some of the holy buildings should produce multiple types of mana.
order-law
runes-earth and enchantment
fellowship-nature , life, and creation
OO-water and mind
AV-entropy and dimensional?

Thats probably to powerful, and besides, what are the religions of those spheres going to produce when they come around.

Remember that disciple types are going to have access to different spheres of magic regardless of if the owning civ has access to the node or not. And mages can learn types of magic their civ doesnt control, they just have to pay for it on levelup.

Having spheres gives you free spells. So building the wonder in the Kilmorph holy city will allow all mages from that point on to be able to cast Wall of Stone for free (plus access to the wonders and untis that require earth, etc etc.).

 

[Lunargent]

No one else like/dislikes the apocalypse as doombringer nuke-like units idea?

 

[Kael]

No one else like/dislikes the apocalypse as doombringer nuke-like units idea?

I dont like it for one of the reason you do. The nuke animations is to recognizable. I think players will see it as our version of a nuke instead of a new feature.

 

[Lunargent]

Ahh well, it's one of the few things from vanilla that I miss. Sometimes it was nice to nuke the crap out of a civ that's been a pain in the arse a turn or two before a space-race victory. The animation is very cool.

Perhaps the doombringer could be a unit that leaves hell terrain behind in its wake where-ever it goes. Now that would be a creepy thing to see headed your way.

But in any case, apoc and blight both would make me turn off armageddon when I play once the toggle is there, as they are very unfair and bug me too much. It's a shame, I feel, because I like the other armageddon spells, even wrath, for they are mostly balanced, possible to counter, and fun to play with.

Right now, apoc and blight seriously detract from the end-game for me. I hate having to go into the world-editor to remove cities that are working on them if I can't afford the sabotoge cost or cannot go to war. Blight does permanent un-repairable damage to your lands- you can't get the lost food resources back no matter how you micro your druids. Apoc removes half of your military, then throws you into war. (though the version of 1.0 I have makes it do nothing) I once lost my entire navy and all the units it was transporting.

Game engine: Congratulations! you've just lost half of your units and half of your cities' population!
Me: what did I do to win this fabulous prize?
Game engine: absolutely nothing, another civ you had a defensive pact with did it for you!
Me: awesome, thanks game engine!

Apoc is better than blight though, except for lost hero units, you can recover from the damage at least. But it still bothers me.

Anyways, I've taken to beating up any financial civs I come across, since they're always the ones unleashing these two spells. It seems to work well, especially if I see Sable. He's been the one to unleash them 90% of the time. And he always signs defensive pacts with half the planet once he gets going, making beating him up early the only option.

 

[loki1232]

Thats probably to powerful, and besides, what are the religions of those spheres going to produce when they come around.

Oh, well when you put it that way...

 

[loki1232]

I think that defiler is going to leave behind hell terrain.

 

[Lunargent]

That's a bit powerfull for a regular unit even a national unit, doncha think?

I thought defilers were going to have the ability to degrade terrain as an action, not degrade it as a wake behind them. That kind of power should be limited to armageddon units, such as Meshabber and the like.

 

[loki1232]

I thought defilers were going to have the ability to degrade terrain as an action, not degrade it as a wake behind them. That kind of power should be limited to armageddon units, such as Meshabber and the like.

Oh you just gave me a great idea. What if one of the armeggedon spells was that hordes of demons broke out of hell and had to be stopped. Whenever they went hell terrain would be left behind.