Destroying Oponents

[PPQ_Purple]

At the present time, there are no real benifits to destroying your oponents rather than vasaling them. If you vasal them you get to force them to give you their mana.
Unfortunatively, vasaling oponents can give you hefty diplomatic penalties with your former war allies, and can actualy be imposible for some races (for example if you are runing crusade).

So I sugjest that some sort of mechanic should be added to give the player a bonus for destroying a civ rather than vasaling it. Here is what I came up, feel free to praise or ridicule it at your lasure.

Basicly, when you destroy a civs last city a window would apear giving you multiple options to chose from:

1. Capture leader and parade him.
Description:
Parade the enemy leader arround your cities to show off your great victory.

Conditions:
-Leader is of opposite alligement or you are evil
-If the leader is of neutral alligement, than you have to had been at war with him for more than N turns (scales with the map size, arround 20-25 for huge map).

Effects:
-Gains a Captured [leader name] unit represented by a cage cart.
-When the unit is in a city, that city get's a free building the Victory Monument [race name] +3 +15%, +1 with crusade and a free We love Leader celebration.
-All these effects disapear if the Captured [leader name] unit is moved from the city.
-The leader can be freed at any time in the city he is in. If freed, the city is gifted to him and he becomes your vasal.
-The leader can be killed at any time.
-The Captured [leader name] unit can be captured by other races and freed or paraded by them.

Drawbacks:
- + with all the civs that participated in the war allong side the enemy civ. Still not sure how many points.
- On flexible dificaulty, your alligement drops slightly.
- If the leader is freed while rebelion still lasts in at least one of his former cities or he enters his former city under rebelion, he is returned to the game and all of his cities under rebelion are instantly returned to him with half of your troops in them flipping.

2. Kill the leader
Description:
Let the people rejoice. Execute the leader to show our people that they have nothing more to fear, and to show enemies that they have nothing more to fight for.
Conditions:
-If you are of good alligement, you can only execute leaders of evil alligement.

Effects:
-Gains a permanent Victory Monument [race name] in your capital and N largest cities (Scales with the map, Capital only for the smallest and 6 for a huge map).
-If the leader is of oposing alligements or you have to had been at war with him for more than N turns (scales with the map size, arround 20-25 for huge map). You get a We love Leader celebration in said cities for 5 turns.
-All resistance in the enemy civs former cities that are captured by you stops imediately.

Drawbacks:
- + with all the civs that participated in the war allong side the enemy civ. Still not sure how many points. The same for all civs with relations friendly to the defeated civ. (Idea by Opera)
- On flexible dificaulty, your alligement drops sharply.

3. Forced Marige

Conditions:
-Oponent is of oposite gender than your leader
-Once only per game

Effects:
-Gains the civs unique palace as a buildable national wonder (the same as you can relocate your own palace and same rulles apply as for any standard palace)
-The palace gives you mana as it did for your oponent.
-All the civs vasals that were at war with you becouse of that civ become your vasals.

Drawbacks:
- + with all the civs that participated in the war allong side you. Double that witch you would get from vasaling the civ, and it's permanent.
- Don't forget the + from gaining all those other vasals.

Notes:
-If you are good, freeing a good leader would give you the same happines bonuses as executing him does. But the only way to get another good leader to free is if you captured him from someone else.


This is just something off the top of my head, so it might not be that good. I am sceptical but I think that this would be far more entertaining than simply having the choice of vasalage vs nothing. What is your opinion?

 

[Opera]

Conditions:
-Oponent is of oposite gender than your leader

Why? And what about marrying Basium or Hyborem?That'd be weird. But I like the ideas. That would be cool, especially because it feels so uneventful to exterminate a civilization. There's a popup and that's all.

However, I think that some things would be hard to implement, namely the "return of the leader" thing.

Why would the marriage generates anger from your war allies?
Also, killing the leader should generate anger from not only her war allies but her "friendly" contacts as well. So this would have an incidence even if the war was a 1v1.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Why? And what about marrying Basium or Hyborem?That'd be weird. But I like the ideas. That would be cool, especially because it feels so uneventful to exterminate a civilization. There's a popup and that's all.

Demonic and angelic leaders would be disabled, but not the lizardmen.

However, I think that some things would be hard to implement, namely the "return of the leader" thing.

The way to do the "return of the leader" thing is to disable the faction being defeated from the game but still count it as a defeated enemy under conquest. It's been done in Ries. That way, you have a civ with no cities or troops that can't talk to anyone (from the start as minors code) and when you want rebirth you simply gift it a city and enable comunication.

Why would the marriage generates anger from your war allies?

Becouse you have placed a person that has harmed them in a position where he/she can cast influence upon you. They start mistrusting you. Sort of a: "What is that wentch of your ploting?" Also to provide some balance.

Also, killing the leader should generate anger from not only her war allies but her "friendly" contacts as well. So this would have an incidence even if the war was a 1v1.?

Good call.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Why? And what about marrying Basium or Hyborem?

You know, Hyborem is a copy of Cernunnos, who had 3 elven wives and several Satyr children already.

 

[1234567890]

So if Faeryl destroys a Lizardman leader and decides to marry him, the FF team will have to implement a new race: Lizardelf.

It looks cool, but I think we already have stuff like this - look at the Splintered Court scenario. Anyway, I would be glad to see your idea implemented.

 

[Honor]

I do not like the once per game and gender limitations. I would be cool with just getting a building in my capital that gave whatever the palace of the conquered nation gave, too, instead of the system you suggested, although they sound interesting as well. I have been vassalizing nations just to get their palaca mana for some time now. It gets old.

 

[BenjaminEmbarec]

Why leave it as marriage? Why not have that option remain for the "Vanilla" option, but keep another option as well... Concubine. Evil leaders only, or neutral at most, and + for nearly everyone... Deffinitely all that's the same gender as the concubine, deffinitely more for all Good leaders, and a smaller one for your allies so long as they are not good leaders. Perhaps evil allies woudl be unaffected by it? Remove the national palace and merely give +10% to something in the pallace, and allow this option multiple times? Perhaps give a random "Heir to the Throne" unit if they are of opposite genders, same for marriage, every now and then... A non-combat minor "Adventurer" styled unit that lowers maintanence in whatever city they are in, but can be upgraded to, with the right techs, one of the higher-end "Royal" seeming units like a Knight or Immortal or Archmage or the like?

Then again, that WOULD probably be hard to code...

 

[Lone Wolf]

I play with No Vassal States anyway.

 

[zup]

Sometimes I make vassals to wrap up a conquest quickly. Generally it is not worth it.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I wander what is the official FF team opinion on this idea?
Preferably on a scale of 1 to 100.

 

[Milaga]

I play with No Vassal States anyway.

As do I. I find the way the AI uses it to be annoying and ridiculously out of the flavor of the game. I can't count how many times I've run across my fellow RoK worshipping neighbors the Luichirp who love my wonders and civics turn against me because their master the Calabim who is on the other side of a huge Ocean has some sort of grudge and always researches Feudalism first.

If it's not the Calabim, it's the Balseraphs. Any game with Vassaling on always seems to turn into me vs. their superpower. I found the games a lot more interesting once I turned it off.

I do miss the palace mana though.

 

[xienwolf]

My opinion (personal, not official) is that is sounds cute. It'd make a decent scenario type setup, or mini-mod. But it doesn't sound fun (read: challenging) to code, which is about all I look at really.

 

[Brokenbone]

Getting a little bonus or opportunity to make a decision when crushing the last city of an opponent is something that feels like scenario territory, I am trying to remember which "official" scenarios did something like that. Splintered Court had some options for giving defeated leaders to other leaders for nefarious purposes, and I forget which of the Falamar or Decius scenarios might've had defeats of certain cities result in a little prize popup type message, maybe where you got gold or a couple of units otherwise impossible for you to build, I'm tempted to think it was one of the Illian ones.

Anyhow, doing this in scenarios means you can have a result that fits a story. Like if you know it's Leader A vs. Leader B, you can have an appropriately uplifting or humiliating tale to tell that is "in character" if A kills B, or B kills A. In a random game it may be tougher to have "one size fits all" or even civ specific options for how to celebrate a victory. Nice ideas above though, I can perfectly imagine a "leader in a cage" being something the Balseraphs would do, and have done in the lore with Beeri Bawl! Again though, stories, other than "emergent stories", are the bread and butter of a decent scenario, and that's where particular victory events may best fit, case by case.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Well, I would prefer to see this in the general random acces game rather than a scenario.
Becouse this is esentialy meant to give players an alternative to clean destrction (you get nothing) and vasaling.