details

[Rhye]

okay, if they're the exact correspondences (not just "a city close to it") I'll use these names, plus the rest of quechua

 

[Polietileno]

Pachacamac is 5 km away from downtown Lima
Chan-Chan is 2 km away from downtown Trujillo
Puno was founded 10 km away from the gates of Tiawuanaku
Sausa is Jauja
Victos is in downtown Piura
Lauricocha is 8 km away from Huanuco
Tucume is 4 km away from Chiclayo

The Spanish founded this cities over alredy existing Incan cities or very close to them to mantain their power over the local "curacas" (administradors) of the Incan empire. Those cities were founded strategicly so they can control some areas that were very important on trade-comunication to the ports and Spain.

 

[Rhye]

and they first destroyed the incan ones?

 

[fearuin]

and they first destroyed the incan ones?

We Spanish, when using cannons, usually try to get the more use as possible from each shot . Most of those cities were not ready to support heavy bombing fire from cannons, and even some of them had no fortifications at all. The Spanish didn't "intentionaly" raze this cities , but they became so scrapped that many people moved to live in the new population centers built by Spanish. If I'm not wrong, incans had the belief that bad spirits remained on the land where a huge massacre had happened, so they prefered abandon their homes and build a new ones away, than rebuild old cities.

 

[V. Soma]

Pachacamac is 5 km away from downtown Lima
Chan-Chan is 2 km away from downtown Trujillo
Puno was founded 10 km away from the gates of Tiawuanaku
Sausa is Jauja
Victos is in downtown Piura
Lauricocha is 8 km away from Huanuco
Tucume is 4 km away from Chiclayo

The Spanish founded this cities over alredy existing Incan cities or very close to them to mantain their power over the local "curacas" (administradors) of the Incan empire. Those cities were founded strategicly so they can control some areas that were very important on trade-comunication to the ports and Spain.

I am really glad you are around here to help this mod!

I do hope you will have the chance to play this mod sooner or later!
(Wish I were a rich man, I would send you those 150 bucks...)

 

[Rhye]

150 bucks?

 

[genovais]

buck = slang for dollar

Brad

 

[Rhye]

aye, but for what?

 

[Elhoim]

aye, but for what?

For upgrading his PC so he can play Civ IV.

 

[Polietileno]

Another thing mentioned on the thread is the need for modern small states. In south america Brzil and Argentina and maybe Chile and Venezuela are needed to fill the room left by thew spanish (if they dicide to colonize one day) or the over expanding Incas. They were never world empires but in modern times are really needed to balance thing out, like a few more small states in Africa, to create the feeling of an age were the europian powers were racing for colonies and trade oportunities.

Edit: Thanks about the 150 talk, I´m always been a Rhye fan, not because he created a trully adictive mod, but because he grabbed a game a took it to a higher grown of inovation and design. Now with Civ4, I´m seeing the same type of work trying to make the game even more fun that alredy is. I´m glad to sae also that I´m investing my time and not wasting it lurking around this forums.

 

[fearuin]

Another thing mentioned on the thread is the need for modern small states. In south america Brzil and Argentina and maybe Chile and Venezuela are needed to fill the room left by thew spanish (if they dicide to colonize one day) or the over expanding Incas. They were never world empires but in modern times are really needed to balance thing out, like a few more small states in Africa, to create the feeling of an age were the europian powers were racing for colonies and trade oportunities.

In the "evolution of civilizations" thread we were talking just of that. There's actually consensus that some "big powers" of modern world are missing. I'm talking about Brazil, Canada, and Australia, specially, but other like Austro-Hungarian Empire or Poland (one of them is enough) will fill the space that usually overgrown Greece, Russia or Germany covers: the Balkans and Eastern europe area. If included this area in the area of interest of these three civs, plus the one chosen as native in there, we will have some action in the Eastern Europe, which is normally missing, except for Germany-Russia conflicts.

 

[Aeon221]

Spain never really developed the force projection in the region that would have been necessary for them to unilaterally raze cities (as the unending wars with the Araucanians show), but I've no doubt they found other ways to incentivize movement to their new cities.

Hey Polietileno, ever heard of huacas [sp?]? I'm currently interested in Spanish colonial activities, and I'm curious about what, exactly, huacas were, as various missionaries in Spanish territory apparently spent a great deal of time and effort in eliminating them. Any term that can [apparently] encompass every sort of inanimate object, from rock to idol to mountain to lake really requires the sort of in-depth description that, say, an archaeologist who, say, specializes in Incans, would be able to provide.

 

[Shadowlord]

Aeon: Apparently wikipedia knows everything. (Although that article does have a 'cleanup needed' tag, but that usually seems to mean 'this article is too long and rambling')

 

[fearuin]

Spain never really developed the force projection in the region that would have been necessary for them to unilaterally raze cities (as the unending wars with the Araucanians show), but I've no doubt they found other ways to incentivize movement to their new cities.

Hey Polietileno, ever heard of huacas [sp?]? I'm currently interested in Spanish colonial activities, and I'm curious about what, exactly, huacas were, as various missionaries in Spanish territory apparently spent a great deal of time and effort in eliminating them. Any term that can [apparently] encompass every sort of inanimate object, from rock to idol to mountain to lake really requires the sort of in-depth description that, say, an archaeologist who, say, specializes in Incans, would be able to provide.

The question was not for me, but I think I can give, not the version of the native people, but the reasons of the Inquisition to activelly worry in that. As you'll know, in this period, Spain was a theocracy. It was ruled by a fanatic king, who had as "police" some reeeaaally creepy guys: the Inquisition.
The Inquisition, when reached America, had the job to actively eliminate any sort of native religion, and to make sure that spanish living in there were not treating to escape Inquisition itself (because they were jewish; or worst, muslim; or worst, pagan; or even worst, practitioners of magic; or really really even worst, satanist). So, when they heard about huacas, they inmediately thought they were "pagan idols". They should be removed, they thought. Really, huacas were more "holy places", than idols itself. In fact, many new converted natives started to use this places to pray to their "new god". Obviusly, for Inquisition, this was heresy: people had to pray in the church, where can be well watched by them. Any person ment to pray alone was suspected inmediately to be jewish, muslim, or, pagan. And for Inquisition's purpouses, suspect was always guilty, unless the king said the contrary.

 

[Polietileno]

In Ancient Peru, the Huacas' main propuse were 2 things: Like the Pyramids, the were cementeries. Importan people (priest, leaders) were buried under or around the huacas. Second use was spiritual center. Among the diferents areas and routes, the huacas were used to workship a determine god. The Moche workship the Sun and the Moon in 2 oposite but equeal huacas. In Pachacamaq, there was a Oracle running, that gave prophesies to who ever want it, thats how the region was semi-independent for about 400 years. Huacas are more seen in the coast, were is enough clay for their construction, but in the mountains you can see similar structures based on stone. The Incas used tu have temple based on the tipe of arquitecture of the huacas in their cities.

 

[Aeon221]

@Polietileno: You've expanded what the word means for me, so thanks. I'm still terribly confused, but I guess I'll have to go bug the anthro department to explain it to me some more. Thanks for the help!

@fearuin. I'm not sure what you intended, but what you typed came out as something closer to something Mel Brooks would have included in one of his movies than historical fact.

@Shadowlord: Wikipedia is to history as Captain Jack Sparrow is to baseball. This in no way reflects on the positive opinion of you I've gotten for going out to look it up, which is downright nice of you.

 

[fearuin]

@fearuin. I'm not sure what you intended, but what you typed came out as something closer to something Mel Brooks would have included in one of his movies than historical fact.

OK, maybe I have been a little too sarcastic. But the sense of it is true. Inquisition was used to control people's beliefs and loyalty to the King and the Pope. The didn't understood that huacas were not idols, but holy places, and didn't understood that people usually tend to worship gods their way, not the one their are forced to do. So, to remove any doubt, they destroyed the huacas. Here in Spain we have a saying: "Muerto el perro, se acabó la rabia", that can be translated as "Dead the dog, ended the rage" (the rage= disease common in dogs, makes them mad and make them to attack anyone near, even their owners). That reasoning was what Inquisition applied: if the huacas were destroyed, peruans will abandon paganism.