[Development] Larger Map Phase I

[1SDANi]

May I have access to the private map branch? My username is 1SDANi

 

[Temujin8k]

Hello. May I know what the current progress of the big map is? Which parts are done and which still need work before we can proceed with the next stage.

 

[Leoreth]

What do you mean by done?

 

[Temujin8k]

Like, which regions of the map and more or less done and final, and which ones need more attention. I'm assuming we're still on the terrain and geography phase, and the landmass shapes are more or less final already.

 

[Leoreth]

Landmass shapes are final already. Other than that it's not really answerable. I think the map is in a good enough state to be used as it is right now, but that does not mean that there is no room for improvement anywhere on the map. So no place is "final" and I don't really think in those terms. Changes to a particular part of the map always have to be justified on their own merit in terms of accuracy and gameplay impact. I cannot know if and where changes would still make sense until I see them.

 

[1SDANi]

May I have access to the private map branch? My username is 1SDANi

Please?

 

[1SDANi]

Please?

Please?

 

[Publicola]

May I have access to the private map branch? My username is earthcrafterman

Leoreth, I'm not sure if you're able to see this message, which was posted back on September 3rd. Thanks!

 

[Leoreth]

I cannot. Thanks.

 

[1SDANi]

How will I be able to tell if I get access to the big map? I'm not super used to github. Thanks!

 

[Cacaso]

I made a save with a map suggestion of the city canonical locations (more focused for 1700AD scenario).

The settled cities are those that would be Canonical and therefore would appear in almost every game.

The marked cities would be the ones that would have a more "adequate" location, this choice being based on: being able to add the main cities, keeping a reasonable distance between cities to avoid very cramped areas, positioning cities in relation to resources. These "marked cities" would be the cities with the highest score on the settle map, but they wouldn't appear in every game like the canonicals.


(When I was making the map, I realized that it's much easier to start building through better known regions like Europe or islands and coastal areas like Japan+Korea. And then go to more difficult areas like Africa, Central Asia, Siberia.)

So, I think it will be more productive to make the discussion by areas: Japan+Korea, China, Indochina, Maphlindo, Australia+NZ, Indian Subcontinent, Persia, Arabian Peninsula, North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, Mongolia+Central Asia, Russia, Europe, Canada+USA, Mexico+Caribbean+Central America, South America.

Starting with Japan + Korea:

Japan
Canonical Cities: Tokyo, Kyoto
marked cities: Nagasaki, Sendai, Sapporo

As Japan is an island and it's very narrow it's easier, I think all the other 4 cities are unanimous, the discussion is in relation to Sendai (I put this one to reach the resource whale). Do you think there should be any changes?


Korea
Canonical Cities: Seoul, PyongYang
marked cities: -
in Korea I think there really should only be these two cities. You guys think there's a third city that would be interesting. Do you think there should be any changes?

In the Indochina and Maphilindo regions:

Indonesia CIV:
Canonical Cities: Palembang, Jakarta
marked cities: Medan, Surabaya, Pontianak, Makaasar, Manado, Kupang, Sorong
These would be cities if there is only One Indonesian CIV. Any suggestions for change? Whether to change location, or add/remove cities?
If so, a MajapahitCIV and Mallaca SultanateCIV Would it be necessary to add/remove some of these cities?

Colonial Cities Maphillindo area:
Portugal : Dilli (in Kupang tile), Ambon, Makaasar
Netherlands: Mallaca, Ambon, Makaasar, Jakarta (renamed Batavia)
England: Mallaca (renamed Singapore), Kuala Lumpur, Brunei, Port Moresby
Spain/USA: Manila and Davao (the two cities in the Philippine area)

Thai/Khamer CIV:
Canonical Cities: Bangkok
marked cities: - AngkorWat/Phnom Penh
As I don't know the region very well, for me the canonical cities in Indochina would be Bangkok, Hanoi and Saigon. Could you suggest which other cities (canonical or "Marked" (high settle value) ) should appear in the game, in this region?


Vietnam ???:
Canonical Cities: Hanoi and Saigon
marked cities: -
Burma???
Canonical Cities: Yangon
marked cities: - Mandaly
Should there be some Vietnam/Burma CIV, or just leave these areas to French and English colonization?


Colonial Cities Indochina area:
England: Yangon and Mandaly
France: Hanoi and Saigon
USA: Hanoi and Saigon ???

In the Australia+NZ regions:

Australia+NZ/Australia and NZ CIVs: ???
Canonical Cities: Sydney, Auckland, Perth
marked cities: Dunedin, Wellington, Adelaide, Melbourne, Canberra, Brisbane, Cairns, Darwin, Broome, Alice Springs, Onslow

Should we have an AustraliaCIV. On the island of Australia, Melbourne and Canberra will have to be mutually exclusive as they are very close and are in a very cramped area, I would prefer Melbourne and leave Sydney/Melbourne as Capital. Another point to discuss is whether we leave Onslow and Broome, or put other cities in that place.

Colonial Cities Australia+NZ area:
England: All cities
Netherlands: Dunedin (renamed Staten Landt), Kaap Van Diemen (Auckland tile or 1NW)

 

[soul-breathing]

I made a save with a map suggestion of the city canonical locations (more focused for 1700AD scenario).

The settled cities are those that would be Canonical and therefore would appear in almost every game.

The marked cities would be the ones that would have a more "adequate" location, this choice being based on: being able to add the main cities, keeping a reasonable distance between cities to avoid very cramped areas, positioning cities in relation to resources. These "marked cities" would be the cities with the highest score on the settle map, but they wouldn't appear in every game like the canonicals.


(When I was making the map, I realized that it's much easier to start building through better known regions like Europe or islands and coastal areas like Japan+Korea. And then go to more difficult areas like Africa, Central Asia, Siberia.)

So, I think it will be more productive to make the discussion by areas: Japan+Korea, China, Indochina, Maphlindo, Australia+NZ, Indian Subcontinent, Persia, Arabian Peninsula, North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, Mongolia+Central Asia, Russia, Europe, Canada+USA, Mexico+Caribbean+Central America, South America.

Starting with Japan + Korea:

Japan
Canonical Cities: Tokyo, Kyoto
marked cities: Nagasaki, Sendai, Sapporo

As Japan is an island and it's very narrow it's easier, I think all the other 4 cities are unanimous, the discussion is in relation to Sendai (I put this one to reach the resource whale). Do you think there should be any changes?


Korea
Canonical Cities: Seoul, PyongYang
marked cities: -
in Korea I think there really should only be these two cities. You guys think there's a third city that would be interesting. Do you think there should be any changes?

View attachment 608997

Maybe out of topic, but Luoyang is not so far south from the Yellow river.

 

[Cacaso]

Maybe out of topic, but Luoyang is not so far south from the Yellow river.

Yes, I just put this city name on this tile because it seemed gameplaywise to put a city on this tile, to get the most out of the map in a 1700AD scenario. But as ChinaCIV could have several different city placement configurations, depending on dynasties, respawns, or internal divisions (warring states, tree kingdons... (the latter depends, of course, on whether these events are represented in the game)). I found it very difficult to make this map suggestion because I don't know so much about the history of this region, so I think it will be necessary almost to have a separate discussion just to define the map and the evolution of city placement in the ChinaCIV area in the scenarios: 3000BC , 600AD, 1700AD.

China1700CIV: ???
Canonical Cities: Peking, Hong Kong
marked cities: Harbin, Shenyang, Xi'an, Qufu, Luoyang, Shanghai, Changsha, Luzhou, Kunming, Taipei, Urumqui
In the case of ChinaCIV I think there will have to be discussions for each "era".


Tibet CIV
Canonical Cities: Lhasa
marked cities:-
In the case of Tibet, I don't think there is any discussion. is one city, the capital of Lhasa. and tundra hills area is empty.

 

[Cacaso]

Indian subcontinent
IndiaCIV
Canonical Cities:
marked cities: Madras, Rajamundry, Bombay, Goa, Hyderabad, Bhopal, New Delhi, Patna, Calcutta, Imphal

MughalCIV:
Canonical Cities: Delhi
marked cities: Dhaka, Islamabad, Karachi, Lahore, ...(and other cities of IndiaCIV)

MysoreCIV:
Canonical Cities: Mysore, Colombo
marked cities: -

Pakistan+Bangladesh CIV:???? (mughal respawn/reduction)
Canonical Cities: Dhaka, Islamabad
marked cities: Karachi, Lahore, Chitagong

Colonial Cities Indian subcontinent area:
Portugal: Goa, Bombay, Diu (2W of Bombay)
England: All Cities ?
France: Pondichéry/Karakal (1S of Madras), Mahé (1S of Mysore), Yanaon (1S of Rajamundry), Dhaka
Netherlands: Colombo, Kochin(renamed Malabar 2N3W of Colombo)

As in the situation of China, in the Indian subcontinent, there could be several different city placement configurations depending on the divisions that will be adopted in the game. I made this suggestion thinking about the 1700AD scenario. I found it very difficult to make this region map suggestion because I don't know much about the history of India, so I think it will be necessary to have a separate discussion just to define the map and the evolution of city placement in this area in the scenarios: 3000BC, 600AD, 1700AD.

If you have some people here on the forum who are from China, India, "Russia+Central Asia" and even "Arab world", if you can, help by doing the different city placement configurations in the different scenarios (3000BC , 600AD, 1700AD). As I'm from Brazil, I don't know much about eastern history.

 

[freethink]

As I don't have the map I cannot make suggestions this way. But in the Eastern United States there needs to be a marsh title and islands tile North of Charleston but South of Norfolk in North America. North Carolina and especially was defined by having a marshy eastern mainland that was blocked from the sea by barrier islands. This was the main reason the coast was left undeveloped until my lifetime but the interior became the center of cities instead.

 

[Cacaso]

Persia + "Arab world"+ Egypt Nubia
BabylonCIV:
Canonical Cities: Babylon (later razed to appear Bagdahd 1N)
marked cities: - Ur (maybe becomes Kuwait)

PhoeniciaCIV:
Canonical Cities: Sur
marked cities: -

EgyptCIV:
Canonical Cities: Cairo/Memphis
marked cities: - alexandria, Aswan

NubiaCIV:
Canonical Cities: Khartoum
marked cities: Kerma

PersiaCIV:
Canonical Cities: Shiraz/Persepolis, Jerusalem
marked cities: - Tabriz, Tehran (put 1S from the correct geographic position, to avoid Isfahan as it is a food poor place, there is no space for both cities) Herat, Mashhad.

ArabiaCIV:
Canonical Cities: Mecca, Jerusalem, Medina
marked cities: - Sana'a, Muscat, Bahrain, Shiraz, Tabriz, Tehran, Herat, Mashhad, Sur, Bagdahd, Kuwait, Damascus.

OttomanCIV:
Canonical Cities: Ankara, Istanbul
marked cities: Gaziantep/Antioch, Trabzon, Izmir, Mecca, Sur, Jerusalem, Medina, Sana'a, Damascus, Bagdahd



Colonial Cities Persia + "Arab world"+ Egypt area:
Portugal: Sana'a, Muscat
England: Muscat, Bahrain, Kuwait, Baghdad, Jerusalem
France: South, Damascus
Rome/Byzantium: Sur, Jerusalem, (maybe Antioch)
AlexandreTheGreat's Greece: Sur, Jerusalem, (maybe Antioch), Egypt+Iraq+Persia+Turkic+Pakistan area cities.


This place is VERY DIFFICULT, there are a lot of CIVs (Persia/Iran, Babylon, Arab, Phoenicia, maybe Israel/Assyria), and many important cities, besides the conquests of Egypt, Alexander the Great, Rome/Byzantium, and the Europeans /Americans in modernity.

 

[Cacaso]

As I don't have the map I cannot make suggestions this way. But in the Eastern United States there needs to be a marsh title and islands tile North of Charleston but South of Norfolk in North America. North Carolina and especially was defined by having a marshy eastern mainland that was blocked from the sea by barrier islands. This was the main reason the coast was left undeveloped until my lifetime but the interior became the center of cities instead.

Ok, I think in this region, we should put Atlanta and a city of Spain (in the Florida area), avoiding Cities on the coast.



USA+Canada

U.S.A.CIV:
Canonical Cities: Washington, New York, , Los Angeles
marked cities: Boston, Chicago, Atlanta, ,St.Loius, Dallas, Houston, SanFrancisco, Portland, Seattle, Las Vegas, Denver, Salt Lake City, New Orleans, Minneapolis, Honolulu
-Cleveland(good location to fill the void between Washington-NY-Boston and Chicago)
-San Augustín(renamed Jacksonville/Orlando/Savannah) (Thus avoid getting too cramped with Atlanta, Avoid founding cities on the swampy and rocky coast like "Freethink" said, and it would be a city of Spain that would force the USA to conquer the Florida of Spain)
-Note that in the "Great Plains" (Montana and N.Dakota) there is a void that will have to be filled with a smaller town, like Helena/Fargo/Bismarck

CanadaCIV:
Canonical Cities: Montreal, Toronto, Quebec City, Vancouver
marked cities: Winnipeg, Regina/Saskatoon, Edmonton, Calgary, Halifax, St. John's

Colonial Cities USA+Canada area:
Portugal: St.John's
Netherlands: New York
England: St.John's, Toronto, New York, Boston, (Atlanta???)
France: St.John's,Quebec City, Montreal, New Orleans, St.Louis
Spain: San augustin, Los Angeles, SanFrancisco
Mexico: Los Angeles, San Francisco

 

[freethink]

I meant like this actually for the Southeast of America

 

[Cacaso]

Mexico+Caribbean+Central America:

MexicoCIV:
Canonical Cities: Tenochtitlan(renamed Mexico City), Hermosillo, Monterrey
marked cities: Mazatlán/Guadalajara, Veracruz, Uxmal (Renoemada Mérida), LaPaz de California/Cabo SanLucas.

Colonial Mexico+Caribbean+Central America area:
Portugal: -
Netherlands: San Marten (2N of Bridegtown)
England: Kingston, Nassau, Bridegtown, YaxMutal(renamed Belize)
France: Port-Au-Prince, Guadeloupe/Martinique (2N of Bridegtown)
Spain: All cities in Mexico/Aztec, Havana, Santo Domingo, San Juan, Guatemala/Managua, Panama,

South America:

BrazilCIV:
Canonical Cities: Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo, Brasília
marked cities: Porto Alegre, Salvador, Recife, Belém, Manaus, Belo Horizonte, Porto Velho, Cuiabá(1S of this map position)

Argentina CIV:
Canonical Cities: Buenos Aires,
marked cities: Corrientes, Mendoza/Córdoba, Salta, Santiago de Chile, Bahia Blanca, Concepcion, Rawson, PuntaArenas/Ushuaia/Rio Gallegos, Malvinas

PeruCIV:
Canonical Cities: Lima,
marked cities: Trujillo/Chiclayo, Cusco, , Arequipa, Iquitos, Arica, La Paz, Santa Cruz de la Sierra, Antofagasta

GranColombiaCIV:
Canonical Cities: Bogota
marked cities: Guayaquil, Cartagena, Panama, Caracas

Colonial cities South America area:
Portugal: Brazil cities
Netherlands: Paramaribo
England: Georgetown, Falklands
France: Cayenne
Spain: Montevideo, Assuncion, Argentina+Peru+GranColombia cities


natives of new world
AztecCIV:
Canonical Cities: Tenochtitlan
marked cities: ???

mayaCIV:
Canonical Cities: Uxmal
marked cities: YaxMutal

IncaCIV:
Canonical Cities: Cusco
marked cities: ???

 

[Cacaso]

From Europe, Russia/USSR and Africa Areas, I'm just going to post the screenshots, These areas still need more discussion to be complemented. In the case of Europe the fitting is easier but you have to analyze which cities/Civs will be placed.

Mainly in Africa and Russia+Central Asia, I need help with city placement suggestions.


Europa

Iberia+Africa