Martock
Warlord
That's gonna be extremely useful Shqype! Thanks for sharing that link!
[Development Thread]WW1 Mod: Blood and Iron
- Thread starter snafusmith
- Start date
That's gonna be extremely useful Shqype! Thanks for sharing that link!
Martock
Warlord
Another event to add in addition to the ones I mentioned earlier:
Halifax Disaster
In Halifax, Nova Scotia (Canada), there is a natural deep harbor. It is ice free and naturally deep. This is an ideal spot to assemble convoys to send to Europe, for the war effort. The inner harbor of this port was called Bedford Basin. On the evening of December the 5th 1917 the Basin was full of assembling merchant ships. The Harbor was also open to neutral ships (however their crews were not allowed onshore for security reasons). One of these was a Norwegian ship the SS IMO, she was alone, and was on her way to New York to load relief supplies for Belgium. She was behind schedule because of having to wait for coal. By the time she was loaded and ready to go the anti-sub nets guarding the port had already been closed. Meanwhile the French ship, SS Mont Blanc, was steaming in full to try to make the harbor before the anti-sub nets were closed. The Mont Blanc was loaded with a cache of explosives and volatile material. The Mont Blanc was late leaving New York Harbor so she was forced to stay outside the nets for the night. The next morning the IMO lifted anchor and started to head out of the harbor. Since she was practically empty she was probably traveling faster than usual. The Mont Blanc sailed in with a dangerous cargo of 2,300 tons of wet and dry picric acid (used in artillery shells), 200 tons of trinitrotoluene (TNT), 10 tons of gun cotton, with drums of Bezol (high octane fuel) stacked on her decks. They collided in the bottleneck part of the harbor know as the narrows. The Mont Blank caught fire and due to the intensity of the fire and volatile cargo Captain Le Medec ordered all hands to abandon ship. As she burned the Mont Blanc drifted to rest up against pier 6. At about 9:05 am the Mont Blanc exploded, the ship was disintegrated. Two square miles around the ship was flattened and most of the windows in Halifax blow out from the pressure of the blast. A mushroom shaped cloud raised a couple of miles into the sky. The Narrow was rained with around 3,000 tons of shrapnel and rocks (believed to have been sucked up from the harbor bed). Also causing destruction was the pressure wave. A part of the ship's anchor landed in the wood nearly 3 miles away. Also the ship's gun landed near Alboro Lake 2km away. Nearby ships were rocked and small ships (tugs, trawlers, etc.) were overwhelmed and sunk. This man made 'tsunami' was funneled up Tufts cove to an encampment of the Micmac (local native American tribe)which was completely destroyed. A small hill rose up opposite the narrows. Being in a highly populated area there was naturally a large crowd assembled. The crowd members experience many cases of blindness and eye injuries because of the explosion flash and glass shatters. It seemed as if this was all a plague because next came the fires. The blast turned homes into kindle wood. The shock wave had overturned coal stoves and cars, which were in widespread use because of the season. An hour after the initial explosion a rumor spread that the magazine at Wellington was on fire. That fire was contained. After that the final factor that contributed to the final death toll arrived near nightfall, the worst blizzard in over a decade. This explosion killed over 1,600 people just in the initial blast. It was the largest explosion ever recorded and kept that title until the atom bomb was dropped on Hiroshima during WWII.
Halifax Disaster
In Halifax, Nova Scotia (Canada), there is a natural deep harbor. It is ice free and naturally deep. This is an ideal spot to assemble convoys to send to Europe, for the war effort. The inner harbor of this port was called Bedford Basin. On the evening of December the 5th 1917 the Basin was full of assembling merchant ships. The Harbor was also open to neutral ships (however their crews were not allowed onshore for security reasons). One of these was a Norwegian ship the SS IMO, she was alone, and was on her way to New York to load relief supplies for Belgium. She was behind schedule because of having to wait for coal. By the time she was loaded and ready to go the anti-sub nets guarding the port had already been closed. Meanwhile the French ship, SS Mont Blanc, was steaming in full to try to make the harbor before the anti-sub nets were closed. The Mont Blanc was loaded with a cache of explosives and volatile material. The Mont Blanc was late leaving New York Harbor so she was forced to stay outside the nets for the night. The next morning the IMO lifted anchor and started to head out of the harbor. Since she was practically empty she was probably traveling faster than usual. The Mont Blanc sailed in with a dangerous cargo of 2,300 tons of wet and dry picric acid (used in artillery shells), 200 tons of trinitrotoluene (TNT), 10 tons of gun cotton, with drums of Bezol (high octane fuel) stacked on her decks. They collided in the bottleneck part of the harbor know as the narrows. The Mont Blank caught fire and due to the intensity of the fire and volatile cargo Captain Le Medec ordered all hands to abandon ship. As she burned the Mont Blanc drifted to rest up against pier 6. At about 9:05 am the Mont Blanc exploded, the ship was disintegrated. Two square miles around the ship was flattened and most of the windows in Halifax blow out from the pressure of the blast. A mushroom shaped cloud raised a couple of miles into the sky. The Narrow was rained with around 3,000 tons of shrapnel and rocks (believed to have been sucked up from the harbor bed). Also causing destruction was the pressure wave. A part of the ship's anchor landed in the wood nearly 3 miles away. Also the ship's gun landed near Alboro Lake 2km away. Nearby ships were rocked and small ships (tugs, trawlers, etc.) were overwhelmed and sunk. This man made 'tsunami' was funneled up Tufts cove to an encampment of the Micmac (local native American tribe)which was completely destroyed. A small hill rose up opposite the narrows. Being in a highly populated area there was naturally a large crowd assembled. The crowd members experience many cases of blindness and eye injuries because of the explosion flash and glass shatters. It seemed as if this was all a plague because next came the fires. The blast turned homes into kindle wood. The shock wave had overturned coal stoves and cars, which were in widespread use because of the season. An hour after the initial explosion a rumor spread that the magazine at Wellington was on fire. That fire was contained. After that the final factor that contributed to the final death toll arrived near nightfall, the worst blizzard in over a decade. This explosion killed over 1,600 people just in the initial blast. It was the largest explosion ever recorded and kept that title until the atom bomb was dropped on Hiroshima during WWII.
snafusmith
Unit Maker
Wow, a lot to respond too... First, thanks for all the info, it's a lot to go through! In no particular order...
German Navy-
Thanks for the picts/info Wolfshanze, check your PMs...
Holy Crap! That site is awesome.. it's definitely going to come in handy.
@Martock-
Some good ideas on the tech tree. I should have elaborated more, I think that would have helped - there are only 3 kinds of armored vehicles in the game right now, Armored Cars, Tanks, and Light Tanks. Tanks are typical of the heavy tanks of the day, the A7V, St. Charmond, and the British Mark series. The Light Tanks are the Whippet, FT17, and LK II (INFO). I don't think there's really all that much of a need for that much diversity just in techs just for tanks. However, I do think 1 (maybe 2) more techs wouldn't hurt the game, and I definitely like the idea of a bonus that is automatically applied to all tanks after a given tech (like reliability).
I want to leave the blitz promotion in for now. It won't be available for tanks, but I want to leave the possibility of expanding the tech tree into the 1930s (if a players game goes that far), where it would be useful.
I'll post more info tonight or tomorrow night on what the units are and their abilities - I think that will help the brainstorming process.
I really like your ideas for Gas attacks and airfields. I had something similar in mind for the airfields, which I was working on implementing in the XML. I'm really glad you spoke up on the gas attacks, as that was something I really wanted in the game, but wasn't sure how.
On the infantry side - you pretty much guessed it. In the beginning of the game, only the most basic units will be available, the standard infantry unit, heavy (defense only) machinegunner, and cavalry. Unit diversification will definitely expand as the game progresses, ultimately to include storm troopers (for attacking trenches), flamethrowers (for attacking machineguns), mobile machinegunners (infantry w/ ligh MGs), etc.
As for events, you listed some good ones... I don't know how the Christmas 1914 would effect the game, but it would be cool if it added something to it. The Fokker scurge might be a cool mission event (build so many Fokker E3s and get a bonus) and the Halifax explosion would be cool to set back the Royal Navy.
Thanks again for all the ideas - now I'm all pumped up to do some more graphics and XML!
-Smitty
German Navy-
Thanks for the picts/info Wolfshanze, check your PMs...
Holy Crap! That site is awesome.. it's definitely going to come in handy.
@Martock-
Some good ideas on the tech tree. I should have elaborated more, I think that would have helped - there are only 3 kinds of armored vehicles in the game right now, Armored Cars, Tanks, and Light Tanks. Tanks are typical of the heavy tanks of the day, the A7V, St. Charmond, and the British Mark series. The Light Tanks are the Whippet, FT17, and LK II (INFO). I don't think there's really all that much of a need for that much diversity just in techs just for tanks. However, I do think 1 (maybe 2) more techs wouldn't hurt the game, and I definitely like the idea of a bonus that is automatically applied to all tanks after a given tech (like reliability).
I want to leave the blitz promotion in for now. It won't be available for tanks, but I want to leave the possibility of expanding the tech tree into the 1930s (if a players game goes that far), where it would be useful.
I'll post more info tonight or tomorrow night on what the units are and their abilities - I think that will help the brainstorming process.
I really like your ideas for Gas attacks and airfields. I had something similar in mind for the airfields, which I was working on implementing in the XML. I'm really glad you spoke up on the gas attacks, as that was something I really wanted in the game, but wasn't sure how.
On the infantry side - you pretty much guessed it. In the beginning of the game, only the most basic units will be available, the standard infantry unit, heavy (defense only) machinegunner, and cavalry. Unit diversification will definitely expand as the game progresses, ultimately to include storm troopers (for attacking trenches), flamethrowers (for attacking machineguns), mobile machinegunners (infantry w/ ligh MGs), etc.
As for events, you listed some good ones... I don't know how the Christmas 1914 would effect the game, but it would be cool if it added something to it. The Fokker scurge might be a cool mission event (build so many Fokker E3s and get a bonus) and the Halifax explosion would be cool to set back the Royal Navy.
Thanks again for all the ideas - now I'm all pumped up to do some more graphics and XML!
-Smitty
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
I noticed the WWI link you got was mostly all land stuff... so here's a WWI Naval Link for you just to keep pace...
Martock
Warlord
Good link that Wolfshanze. I like that it shows the pre-dreads and dreads. Speaking of which, I can't find on this website the unit files for various early era ships like the protected and armored cruisers. Can you point me to them? They'd go well with this MOD.
snafusmith
Unit Maker
The only early ship units currently in the mod where made by me - the US Wickes class destroyer (the typical 4 stacker) and HMS Dreadnought. I'm about 80% done with the German U-31 Class uboat, and 20% done with the SMS Helgoland Class dreadnought. The other units that were done are OK, but they don't meet my current standards, and won't be put in the mod.
Martock
Warlord
Take a look at a modified tech tree I whipped up. I like the idea of leaving the tree open to the war going beyond 1920 and into the 30's though I'm not sure it really ought to.
The reason I modified it was your tree looked to simple and to short. If, as I imagine, the time range for this mod will be done in monthly increments (though weekly would be awesome and more realisitic), the original tech tree would probably be completed before the war actually ended.
When would this mod begin? 1914? 1912? I think an earlier start date would be better if only to allow research to be started and for some events to be added.
Speaking of events, it would be cool if certain events for Russia took place that either triggered the 1917 revolution or postponed it (or stopped it entirely).
I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed that you won't be including some of the earlier units, i.e. pre-dreads, in this game. They really ought to be in there as those kinds of vessels still existed and were in service at the outbreak of the war. Still, I can always add them in myself (as I know I will).
The reason I modified it was your tree looked to simple and to short. If, as I imagine, the time range for this mod will be done in monthly increments (though weekly would be awesome and more realisitic), the original tech tree would probably be completed before the war actually ended.
When would this mod begin? 1914? 1912? I think an earlier start date would be better if only to allow research to be started and for some events to be added.
Speaking of events, it would be cool if certain events for Russia took place that either triggered the 1917 revolution or postponed it (or stopped it entirely).
I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed that you won't be including some of the earlier units, i.e. pre-dreads, in this game. They really ought to be in there as those kinds of vessels still existed and were in service at the outbreak of the war. Still, I can always add them in myself (as I know I will).
Shqype
Shqyptar
You need to think about the length of the game when deciding turn increments. A standard game is 500 turns (will this game run that long?).
How long do you want the mod to span? What's the latest possible date for the end of the war? If you wanted 10 years, from 1912-1922, then you can look at it this way:
If you span monthly turns, 1 month/turn = 1 year/12 turns = 10 years/120 turns.
Weekly, you get this: 1 week/turn = 1 month/4 turns = 1 year/48 turns = 10 years / 480 turns, which is just 20 turns shy of the normal game and a great place to start, in my opinion.
How long do you want the mod to span? What's the latest possible date for the end of the war? If you wanted 10 years, from 1912-1922, then you can look at it this way:
If you span monthly turns, 1 month/turn = 1 year/12 turns = 10 years/120 turns.
Weekly, you get this: 1 week/turn = 1 month/4 turns = 1 year/48 turns = 10 years / 480 turns, which is just 20 turns shy of the normal game and a great place to start, in my opinion.
snafusmith
Unit Maker
I'll definitely take a look at it - thanks. As for the 20s and 30s, Blood and Iron foruses on WW1, but there's no reason it can't go a little longer - who knows what would have happened if the US hadn't joined?
Actually, I was trying to figure out weeks or months. Right now I'm for weeks, if only to make things last a little longer. As for the tech tree, I think people see a small one and assume that it means the game will be short. The way I have it planned out now, each tech would take a lot longer than in a normal game. Also, most of the major nations would start out with several techs, to bring them up to the level that they really were at. Combine the two together, and the game may last even longer than 1918 without everything being researched. Ultimately the design of the scenarios (how much science each civ can produce) that will play out how fast or slow the player will move through the tech tree. Right now, 10+ turns a tech seems about right to me.
The mod starts (or the main scenario starts) in late July of 1914.
Pre-dreads will definitely be in the game. I only meant that the ship models on the forums (if not made by me), will not be in the game. There's one or two out there worth using, but the rest aren't up to my standards. Even my older ship models (like the HMS Dreadnought) are getting a heavy re-do. Many are good, but I want everything to have a similar appearance, that means nothing but the most recent units from the more accomplished unit makers.
Russia will have a whole bunch of events and triggers for the revolution. Right now my thought is several things: War weariness, lack of victory, general unhappiness, and high taxes will contribute. If the Russian player manages to avoid those things, then the revolution might be more managable. If not, then they'll have a hard time.
snafusmith
Unit Maker
A great way to look at things - and the way I was picturing it too. I always saw the mod as taking about 250 turns (half a normal game). The current tech tree has just under 30 techs, and most major nations will start with about 5 (different for each). With 10 turns a tech (roughly), a player will likely run through all of the major techs, but possibly not. The minor nations will definitely NOT get that far through the tech tree, and will still have to rely on their larger friends for weapons.
1 turn/1week x 52 weeks/year x 4 year war = 208 turns for the whole war.
Not bad I think, and the game doesn't always have to end in 1918, it can go on until someone sues for peace.
I took a quick look at your tech tree Martock, not bad, but it's a little confusing to read. Any way you could make it a little clearer?
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
Snafu... I have no idea how you do what you do... but that's some damn fine modeling! I'll see about getting you some more specific models, but that link I provided earlier should definately give you a good rough idea of your major options.
I definately know what it's like to want "the same look" for all your units in a mod... differant artists tend to have differant styles. My mod-work on the game Pacific General had me trying to get "the same look" on nearly 2,000 differant WWII units for about 30 nations. I did a lot of artwork for that one (2D) and turned-away several good artists simply because I wanted all the units to have the same look.
Pre-Dreadnoughts were DEFINATELY used in WWI... though they were quite outdated... mostly they were relegated to 2nd-line duty, such as coastal defense or shore bombardment... but tended to shy away from the high seas in the age of Dreadnoughts.
They're on there... at least for the Germans and British... try going here.
Since I lack any modeling talents, I'm always scrapping to get some units made that interest me... I've convinced General Matt to work on the German Brandenburg class of Pre-Dreadnoughts... I did this thinking you weren't doing Pre-Dreadnoughts for this mod... so I'm not sure if General Matt falls in your acceptable range or not, but there's plenty of good German Pre-Dreadnought Battleship classes to choose from!
I definately know what it's like to want "the same look" for all your units in a mod... differant artists tend to have differant styles. My mod-work on the game Pacific General had me trying to get "the same look" on nearly 2,000 differant WWII units for about 30 nations. I did a lot of artwork for that one (2D) and turned-away several good artists simply because I wanted all the units to have the same look.
Pre-Dreadnoughts were DEFINATELY used in WWI... though they were quite outdated... mostly they were relegated to 2nd-line duty, such as coastal defense or shore bombardment... but tended to shy away from the high seas in the age of Dreadnoughts.
snafusmith
Unit Maker
It depends, do the seasons slow the game down a lot? If not, then I'll probably add them in.
Me too!
Changing seasons really slows the game down if you try to update every tile every turn. In weekly incriments you don't have to change the whole map at once so, depending on map size, it's quite possible to work it in without any serious performance hits.
Martock
Warlord
I used to have visio which would have been great for this tree. I'll see if I can find it again and install it. I know the tree I sent was a bit confusing so I'll see if I can clear things up. The only thing is, I don't now if Visio has a notes feature that details what happens at specific techs on the tree.
Glad to hear that pre-dreads and such will be in the game. I'm even more happy to hear that the game would be done in weekly increments. I'd suggest that it start earlier than 1914 though again if only to allow countries to start researching into the tree a little ways. There is plenty of material out there though to use if you decide to go past the 1920's. Hmm...WWI and the great depression...would it even have taken place around then?
I was thinking about gas attacks. Would it be possible to take the flames of a newly captured city, paint them green, and use that to show terrain being affected by gas attacks?
Shqype
Shqyptar
Dale has created battle effects which appear on tiles after battle/bombardment. It would be fairly simple to use his system for gas effects.
Martock
Warlord
I know the affects on in there...currently playing it (wish it had Wolf's 1850-1920 mod thrown in...)...but I've yet to advance that far in the game. I was under the impression that those tiles only went with the usual fire and smoke. I'm thinking of using that but coloring it all green and yucky.
@Snafusmith
I hope you have Visio or a viewer for this. It's more to the tech tree now in CIV IV. Only thing is you can't see the notes for some of the techs I put in. I revised it a bit, got rid of a tech or two. At present, it's 88 techs long, 59 more techs than your tree had.
dutchking
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2007
- Messages
- 3,317
May I volunteer for Leaderheads or perhaps any other stray art you may need?
(I've been dying to work on a WWI mod, just found this one!
)
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Messages
- 7,831
It's very simple to use a different effect. It's just an xml setting.
In the battle effects thread you'll even notice I did a test of this using the nuke 'shroom.
For gas attacks, I think the best affect would be to use the city pollution haze.
Martock
Warlord
May I volunteer for Leaderheads or perhaps any other stray art you may need?
(I've been dying to work on a WWI mod, just found this one!
Do you know if there is a leaderhead for Lenin? or Woodrow Wilson?
