[DG2] Preliminary Turnchat Poll (version 1.1)

[Falcon02]

how do i view who voted for each vote then (as it is not visible currently.)

click on the number of votes for one of the options, it will give you who voted what.

So mandatory DOESN'T mean mandatory?

Falcon, would you please clearly explain what each of the options mean then.

Thanks!

-- Ravensfire

I tried to explain it in the first point.

Option means it's the DP's or some other's choice completely. So we are open to terms without turnchats etc.

Mandatory means only under certain conditions would an offline session be allowed (to be determined in subsequent polls). In essence, an attempt to ensure that turnchats are garenteed to be the "normal" play type, and that theoretically each term there should only be one or two "offline" sessions if any. One example would be 1 turn games (once in DG1 or DG2 we had a turnchat so that we could just see what was up the next turn), where a full fledge turnchat is unnecessary. It was also my attempt to make sure the Mandatory was open for later adjustment so that it can be somewhat forgiving to those who seek to play a save but can't.

It's basically the difference of DP's whim and meeting concrete criteria.

 

[DaveShack]

So mandatory DOESN'T mean mandatory?

Falcon, would you please clearly explain what each of the options mean then.

Thanks!

-- Ravensfire

I used the phrasing

"the game session shall nominally require to be accompanied by a chat session" to allow the possibility to work in later RARE exception.

But to establish as a rule we should make sure we maintain turnchats as the primary session. But allow some relaxation in the results later, in case we want to allow a rare exception.

My fear with pure optional, is we'll get a term free of turnchats and participation may wane.

So to paraphrase, in most circumstances, the session will be in a chat. In exception cases, it is allowable to play without a chat. Such exceptions should not become the norm -- if they did become the norm then we would have defeated the whole purpose of encouraging chats.

My vote for yes "mandatory" means that I think having a chat should be the default option. I don't agree with categorically eliminating someone from eligibility to play based solely on inability to have a chat going, but would expect to give the citizens the option to allow offline play on a case by case exception basis.

Another way of saying essentially the same thing...

Edit: And crossposted. lol

 

[Falcon02]

Yup, what DS said

 

[donsig]

I like turnchats for the following reason:
4 - And this horse has been beaten until it was dead, and is still being beaten... Allows for advisors to give advice to the DP in special situations. (i.e., another civ builds a city within 2 tiles of where we wanted to build, or we find a new resource and Trade or its' equivalent wants to trade it since there was a prior poll saying we'd like to trade.)

This is the main reason we should NOT have turn chats. Conditional instructions can be made for all these situations since they are rarely surprises anyway. Any advice advisors want to give should be given in the game play instruction thread where we can all see it. We should give the DP freedom to deal with any truly unexpected things and trust in his or her judgement.

Let's play one demogame as a purely forum based game and see if interest in the game will be maintained. We've had numerous DGs with those blasted chats and they ruin the experience for many of us.

EDIT: So from reading the above posts I see your answer is yes, mandatory does not mean mandatory. This is in keeping with the last constitution where official did not mean official. That's ok, DaveShack, as long as YOU know what you mean it doesn't matter what the rest of us think the rule says, right?

Monkeying with the meaning of mandatory so as to allow for a DP who can't hold a chat while still making them mandatory for a DP who can hold one but doesn't want to isn't right. Either make them MANDATORY or OPTIONAL in the full sense of these words and take the good with the bad in either case.

 

[Falcon02]

Well, donsig, the intent was to differenciate between the DP's choice and "legal" exceptions (so it's not the DP's choice, but certain cases will allow offline sessions).

Regardless given the votes at the moment, it's gonna be the DP's (or other's, ie. president, citizenry) choice.

Though I think most people will agree it should be the DP's choice, but that's another poll.

 

[Cyc]

I think it might be easier to understand if we said:

Mandatory, there must be a public turnchat to advance the save.

Optional, the DP may opt to hold a private turn session offline in an emergency or extreme situation.

The wording of Turn Session and Turnchat can make a big difference.

 

[Falcon02]

However, that's not the intent of "Optional" at least that's not how I saw it,

Your optional is more so my thought of Manditory (except replace "DP may opt" to "citizenry may opt")
Optional in my mind = DP's choice, even if it's a normal Turn session.

 

[donsig]

Well, I'd like to help out here so we can figure out what mandatory and optional mean but I'm still trying to figure out what official means.

I think we are all in agreement that offline game play is not only allowed but desirable under certain circumstances. We certainly do not agree on what those circumstances are. That's what we should be debating and not the definition of mandatory or optional.

 

[Falcon02]

I think we are all in agreement that offline game play is not only allowed but desirable under certain circumstances. We certainly do not agree on what those circumstances are. That's what we should be debating and not the definition of mandatory or optional.

Honestly, I think you're right, there has obviously been alot of confusion with the options I selected for this poll...

I was trying to do a general DP choice vs. rule based offline sessions... But, this was obviously too general. I'm going to be opening another thread in the citizen's forum to nail down more specific options for a multiple choice poll.

 

[Nobody]

i am opposed to turn cats, what purose would these cats hold? whos responsability is it to feed and bath said turn cat?

 

[dutchfire]

"The only cats in civ are lions and panthers."