DGIT4-Maelstrom at Sea

[SpikeIt]

Here's a partial turnlog as I pretty much killed our financial situation. I'll let the team decide how to dig us out. Its a pretty funny, but painful mistake.

Notes:
In Golden Age. Researching Military Tradition on scientist. due in 48. Currently have 37gpt coming in and 91 gold. We have 4 former Mongol cities under our control under the starvation diet. It'll be interesting to see if we can hold onto these.

Hah. Alerum left the diplo map highlighted. Aah. Let's take a pic.
We're at war with the Arabs again. Mongols are fighting China and, hah, the Arabs. We have a beserk and 2 pikes offshore next to Fez. Military Tradition is known.

We are a Monarchy, as I thought.

The diplo rounds:
Mongols: 18 turns on peace, sending 45 gpt. Up Music Theory, Democracy, Economics, Navigation, Physics, Military Tradition. Lack iron.
China: 1! turn on horse for silk/gems trade. 10 turns on sending 70gpt, and 10 turns sending 14gpt for spices. Up same techs as Mongols. At war with Spain and Mongols.
Arabs: We're not talking. At war with Mongols and us.
Russians: No deals. Up same techs. At war with China.
Spain: No deals. Up same techs. At war with China, England, and Ottomans.
England: 10 turns sending 30gpt. Up same techs. War with Spain.
Ottomans: Not long for this world. They are OCC. Behind in techs. They do have 37 gold which I'll likely try and take.

So lets see... For the next 10 turns I have to support 159gpt in deals and our GA will be ending soon. This is going to hurt. We have a few banks in the pike and our Forbidden Palace is due in 1. Maybe that will help. We're not likely going to be swinging any tech deals during this reign. Its pretty much a round of survive financial hardship and build more 'zerks and pikes for next campaign. Okay, I'm game.

[0] 1060AD
MM Copenhagen to cut production time of beserk. Its size 10 and running out of space to grow. This will stunt growth for a bit.

Muscat is unoccupied. That's reducing its production a bit and stunting growth. We need it to grow to rake in gold from seas. I'll MP it.
Hareid it producing a beserk due in 24? Switching to harbor since it won't have land to work.

IBT
Watch as Mongol Cav claims Fez. Arabs are OCC I believe. China moves troops incl. cavs, through our lands. I don't think we have anything to fear. Yet. Mongols and England ally against Spain.
Odense worker -> temple.
Our Forbidden Palace completes in Birka. Starts market. Gold up to 57 (47 after some starvation)
Stavenger pike->pike.

[1] 1070AD
Okay, I never recieved notice that our GA was over, but its not shown in corner... We're pulling 47gpt still. Not sure whether to trust. I'll check some cities. Yep, its over.
Have we ever figured out how we have a local source of silks, yet we are importing them AND yet we have no excess to trade?? Bug?

Okay, horses for silk/gems is up now. Do we cancel and renegotiate? I'll hold off and see what China does. Maybe we can swing our horses for some saltpeter and upgrade the defenses a bit more.

IBT
Right. Mao doesn't like our terms anymore.
Okay, if we buy in the philosophy that we must fight to get anywhere else this game, then a lot of our excess gold isn't needed. We can use the luxuries though and saltpeter would be nice to have for a while, if only to upgrade some defense and to use for better holding of foreign conquests. Horses aren't need unless we can grab MT sometime soon.
We send 21gpt and horses for saltpeter and gems.

China keeps on trucking through.

Hmmm. Now Civ announces the end of our golden age? Uh oh. This could be bad... What the heck?! I killed us!! I looked last turn and there was no golden age production. Um, we are now pulling -69gpt. What a mistake. Spike-it, financial advisor to the Vikings, is promptly fired,

And Trondheim is rioting?! Correct and forward through cities.

Rey bank->beserk

[2] 1080AD
Okay. We're at -65gpt with only 59 gold in the bank. That's a whole lot of taxmen. Well, let's see. We can (1) sell off a ton of stuff, (2) hire a ton of taxmen and watch our population wither, or (3) ruin our rep by declaring war to lose gpt deals. But NOT lux deals. Let's go to the boards. Our sci rate is at 0 btw

War with China will recoup 105gpt, but will lose us 2 luxuries AND break a horses for saltpeter deal.
War with England (8 turns left) and Mongols (18 turns left) will net us 75gpt.


So, what's it going to be?
1) Sell the ship. What do we need barracks for anyway?
2) Tax us! Make sure that lone scientist either invents something quickly or pulls in some coin.
3) War. Maybe the AI will like us for our financial ineptitude.

 

[Sandrock LQ]

I say war with English and Mongols. It's what we do best. And I should be able to grab a set of turns this week.

 

[SpikeIt]

I say war with English and Mongols. It's what we do best. And I should be able to grab a set of turns this week.

I'm leaning that way myself, but we'd likely lose our Mongol holdings to the north as they have cavs now and we don't really have any defense. We should be able to hold our core though. Its sad because we can't lower our tech rate, and our maps are practically worthless. Mother England won't even buy ours. I should continue this tonight. I'll try and come up with something creative to mitigate our losses. If I can somehow drum up 35 gpt, I wouldn't feel so bad about war with England only.

Man, I really screwed us. Hah! Then again, if I hadn't made the last deal, we'd still be in a 44gpt hole, putting us in the same boat.

 

[alerum68]

The silks... we didn't have a source of them when we made the deal with China... during my turns, I expanded culture and brought in some silks... this is why we don't have any to trade, and yet 2 sources.

Alright, you didn't screw us SpikeIt... I just thought we had another 5 turns on our GA when I made our deal on my turns.. just handed what you were given is all. Don't declare though! Declaring on England won't give us enough gold back, and if we declare on Mongolia we loose our new cities. I say lets just run a deficet and see what happens.... as long as there is no change of China going to war against us... we CANNOT surive China.

If we do go to war, we have to abandon all but 1 or 2 Mongolian Coastal cities that we just captured. They will be lost almost as soon as war is declared if we don't cosolidate our troops in a few strongholds.

I still think the best bet is to run a defiect and hope that all we do is loose some troops.

 

[SpikeIt]

The silks... we didn't have a source of them when we made the deal with China... during my turns, I expanded culture and brought in some silks... this is why we don't have any to trade, and yet 2 sources.

Right. I realized you got them connected. But since we were importing one from China AND we had a local one, shouldn't we have had 1 excess to possibly trade?

Alright, you didn't screw us SpikeIt... I just thought we had another 5 turns on our GA when I made our deal on my turns.. just handed what you were given is all. Don't declare though! Declaring on England won't give us enough gold back, and if we declare on Mongolia we loose our new cities. I say lets just run a deficet and see what happens.... as long as there is no change of China going to war against us... we CANNOT surive China.

If we do go to war, we have to abandon all but 1 or 2 Mongolian Coastal cities that we just captured. They will be lost almost as soon as war is declared if we don't cosolidate our troops in a few strongholds.

I still think the best bet is to run a defiect and hope that all we do is loose some troops.

I really realize that. My biggest mistake was not realizing the GA was still on at least in terms of showing our gpt. I didn't see GA productivity any more on the tiles, and it did not say we were in the GA on the bottom right. But yet, the gold calc didn't take place until the next IBT. I wouldn't have continued to trade another 21gpt away if I thought we were still in the GA. It just adds to the problem.

At deficit, what do we lose first? Buildings or units?

 

[SpikeIt]

Not going to be able to continue turns tonight. Having bizarre brownouts.

 

[alerum68]

That extra gold you shipped to China didn't hurt us... we would have been in the same situation by at least 55gpt. Anyway, it's done now, lets not dwell on it.

I'm really not sure what we'll loose first... I've done it only a few times, and never on purpose... It seemed like I lost buildings like barracks first. Not all, just 1 here, or 1 there... and I don't remember taking a hit every turn either.

 

[SpikeIt]

Didn't get a chance to post last night, but I will tonight. I'm basically done with my 10. We're back in the black pulling in over 86gpt (likely to change before I'm done). No new wars. Basically burned/sold improvements in Mongolian holdings for extra cash, and managed to get a bit of gold from map trades. Snagged Economics as well, for what its worth.

As for what was automatically sold off first... a market, of course! We ended up losing a market, and a worker at least apart from what I sold. We founded a new city too (extra gpt, don't you know) and got a ring side view of a Russian/Chinese brawl leading to a new neighbor in our south.

Oh, and I started the viking version of Hands Across Scandinavia , blocking off Chinese reinforcements from the south. I think it would be great if Russia took out Medina (the saltpeter city) for us.

 

[Sandrock LQ]

Wow, good recovery. I should be able to grab a set this week. We can discuss a plan of action after the turn log is up.

 

[SpikeIt]

Everyone start banging their heads together as to the plan of action. The situation is this... rifles and cavs are available to the AI. We don't have a local source of saltpeter and we are way behind in tech. China has saltpeter (which we are trading for now) but we have to trade horses to get them. England and Russia are pretty flush with money with England being loaded (closing in on 5K). Pretty soon (if not already) the AI will be building rails, increasing their production even farther ahead.

I'm starting to think a suicide run at China might be our only bet. We'd cut off their horses and one of their sources of saltpeter is in our backyard. Plus they are not flush with cash like some others. They have LOTS of junk attackers (swords and stuff) and they do have muskets and cavs. We'd have to build up for a bit. Pick away at them as long as we can. First attack would be to take saltpeter and back yard cities and hold on tight. Make peace and hope to pick again to push out. We'd probably be obliterated, but I don't see us taking on anyone else at this point and having a shot. Sure we wouldn't be wiped out (by other AIs), but we woundn't make much if any headway and likely couldn't settle for anything.

We can use beserks to attack overseas, but it will be tough to hold any cities from the AI unless we can build LOTS of troops, and our productivity just isn't too great.

 

[alerum68]

We could use our 'zerks to take out the coastal cities, but we don't have a defender that will hold up 1 round to protect those cities. Going for China in a suicide run is very feasible, but I'd like to have at least 2 more civs going to war with them. Russia isn't going to cut it I'm afraid. If we do this though, we have to start working out an invasion strategy now. Any suggestion on where to go with this? Any who's present right now?

 

[SpikeIt]

We could use our 'zerks to take out the coastal cities, but we don't have a defender that will hold up 1 round to protect those cities. Going for China in a suicide run is very feasible, but I'd like to have at least 2 more civs going to war with them. Russia isn't going to cut it I'm afraid. If we do this though, we have to start working out an invasion strategy now. Any suggestion on where to go with this? Any who's present right now?

Russia's not bad, because they are large, but mother Russia seems to be going to war with everyone. We can't discount Russia, since she's close by. Its very likely that China is already at war with 2 or more AI, but beside Russia, most are fake wars. Everyone is at war with Spain. I believe England just allied with China against Spain, so they are likely out. Its always possible that if we go to war with China, we may get ganged up on. Luckly China doesn't seem to have cash to use to buy civs in. Mongolia might get in on the action, but that depends on how long they've been a peace with China.

The unfortunate consequence of the China/Russian war is that a large number of Chinese troops are marching through our lands. Well, at least as far as Hands Across Scandinavia!

 

[SpikeIt]

Continuation of my turn log...

[2] 1080AD
Okay. We're at -65gpt with only 59 gold in the bank. That's a whole lot of taxmen. Well, let's see. We can (1) sell off a ton of stuff, (2) hire a ton of taxmen and watch our population wither, or (3) ruin our rep by declaring war to lose gpt deals. But NOT lux deals. Let's go to the boards.

War with China will recoup 105gpt, but will lose us 2 luxuries AND break a horses for saltpeter deal.
War with England (8 turns left) and Mongols (18 turns left) will net us 75gpt.

Let's see what we can manage without war.
Set Mongol holdings to taxmen and we're now at -55gpt. Set some others stunting a bit of growth, but only where it works. Now at -42gpt. With 59 gold, I don't need to work some trades. Yet.

IBT
Chinese troops continue on.
OCC Arabs declare on Spain.
Trondheim completes bank -> beserk
Basra pike->temple
Batshireet resistance is over. worker->templet
Aarhus aqueduct->bank
Now at -39gpt with 17 left.

[3] 1090AD
Okay. I'd rather drum up 22 gold to avoid losing anything for another turn. There are 7 turns of deals with China and England which will put us back into the black.
A little further MM and we are at -30gpt.
Let's see if we can scare it out of the Ottomans. Whoa, missed something.
We have excess iron which the Mongols lack. Aack, they don't have gpt to spare. We can get tech from them, while helpful, we can't get gold for it. We can get horses, but without MT, they are useless. Okay, if we grab their world maps and a tech, that's about the best we can do. Trading for Economics would help if we need to switch to wealth research. But Physics might just show a door in research between the haves and have nots, not that we can profit from that. I don't think we can grab Democracy no matter what. Aah, we can't swing Physics and their world map. Can't grab MT either. We trade iron for Economics, 2 gold and their WM and TM. And now the world is revealed. I sure hope there is a bit of a market for this thing.

Gee, Liz won't even consider trades. If we only had an embassy.
China will trade WM for WM and 13 gold. Deal. We are now at 32 gold and -30gpt.
We renegiate peace with Osman for 38 (all of their) gold.

Now at 70 with -30gpt.

IBT
Russia lands troops near Chinese city of Khurasan and fends off some attacks. Wouldn't it be great if they went for the Chinese saltpeter city?
Starvation across our holds and we're back at -46gpt.

[4] 1100AD
Fix some cities and we are at -38gpt. Market and bank due next turn should help.

IBT
We have a new neighbor - the Russians as they take Khurasan. Russia, proud of their succes, declares on England.
Mongols and Arabs make peace.
Bergeron completes bank. Muscat market.


[5] 1110AD
Okay, 5 turns left on deals. 3 gold and -30gpt. Time to suffer.

IBT
Watch China move half their army west to kill Russian incursion.
See, that's not fair!!! First item lost - marketplace we just build in Muscat!
Hah! And the people admire my fiscal responsibility so much we get a nice walkway around our palace.

[6] 1120AD
England has over 4000 gold now!
I'd rather not lose another bank or market. I sell off Batshireet courthouse. That will keep us in black for another turn. 34 gold and -28gpt.

IBT
Greeeaaaat! Russia would like a gift of our TM and 19 gold. Um, we'd lose something again. What can be more fun than trying to fend off Catherine? Her power is about 10 times ours. I cave.
A worker is disbanded.

[7] 1130AD
3 turns left. I sell courthouse in Ereen and market in Batshireet.

IBT
More Chinese movement. They haven't taken back Khurasan yet.

[8] 1140AD
Decide to annoy Chinese some by making them move troops around our workers.
Sell rax in Batshareet and Har-Ayang.

IBT

[9] 1150AD
Russians have rifles. Continue enclosing Chinese troops. I wouldn't mind letting Russians have crack at Medina and its saltpeter without Chinese reinforcements. Complete Hands Across Scandinavia isolating Medina and Anjar from rest of Chinese cities. Maybe the Russian take it and we can start a fake war to get Saltpeter.

Found Alesund pulling in some extra gpt.

Manage to trade maps around enough to keeep us in black for one more turn.

IBT
Chinese clear some Russian troops.
Mongols and England ally against Russia.
Woohoo! We are at +86gpt.
Ack. Copenhagen riots.

[10] 1160AD
Time to set things back a bit for growth. Eliminate most taxmen.
Najran won't starve - set to worker and zero growth - taxman.
Resetting cities, we're now at +76gpt.
Arabs will finally make peace. Cool. They'll hand over Music Theory (all they have) 1gpt and 8 gold (again,all they have). Deal.

We really can't deal for MT or Physics even with our gold.
I left the rest of the unit moves. I'll leave it to the next player to use this turn to determine where to organize troops.

Notes: Lux deal with China up on the IBT. We'll have to decide whether to renew or not. I'd keep Hands Across Scandinavia in place. Maybe Russians talk that saltpeter for us.

Okay. What to do? AI has cavs and at least the Russian have rifles. Beserk invading will likely fail as we won't be able to hold foreign holdings. I think an invasion of China is in the cards. Build up some forces, maybe some more artillery. Goals would be to own SW - Medina, Anjar, Bagdhad and push out to Chinan and Fustat. We'd be doing A LOT of defending as China has loads of swords and such to use. We can invade Medina and Chinan by sea with beserks. At least thats my thoughts. I say complete the current round of markets/banks, build loads of units and go. We can't wait too long.

Just to update the diplo front, here's a pic. There's a war or two going on!

 

[SpikeIt]

Right. We'd probably like to see a save file, eh? Here we go. And the roster.

1)-Oblivion- <-- skip until Jan 2
2)Blasphemous
3)SolarKnight
4)SandrockLQ
5)SpikeIt <-- Played
6)Smellincoffee
7)alerum68 <-- Played

 

[Blasphemous]

Put me on autoskip until Jan 18th. I have a major exam in two hours and another in a week and a half.
EDIT: Oh, and my cousins from MA are coming here to have a bar-mitzvah for one of them, and they'll be here half of the time when I should be studying for my later exam. Bleargh.

 

[SpikeIt]

Put me on autoskip until Jan 18th. I have a major exam in two hours and another in a week and a half.
EDIT: Oh, and my cousins from MA are coming here to have a bar-mitzvah for one of them, and they'll be here half of the time when I should be studying for my later exam. Bleargh.

Isn't family fun? Always complicating plans. Good luck on your exams.

 

[-0blivion-]

I can take it - nice turnset SpikeIt. We do not seem to have been hurt too much by our little finance problem. Solid Suggestions IMHO. I will swallow my aggressive instinct and have an Infra turn

 

[alerum68]

Very Very nicely done SpikeIt! I thought for sure we'd loose alot more then we did. Renew the luxury deal as soon as we loose them. If not the AI may trade them to someone else in the IBT, and we'll be stuck with nothing. Always better to renew as soon as you can.

Maybe we should let Russia and China duke it out for a while, and hopefully Russia will take some Chinese cities, but will leave them weakly defeneded. We can then take them from Russia, and bring China into some kind of MA to make sure that we won't get to badly hurt.... seems as if Russia and China are close to Vendetta point.

The guy you're gonig to have to watch out for is the Ottomans. They're not at war with anyone, but at par with everyone... they have to be building up something massive.

 

[SpikeIt]

Luckily for us those Mongolian cities we captured came stock full of goodies. Enough to only leave us in negative for a couple of turns. One of those would have been fine as well if not for the Russian demands.

As for the Ottomans... they are the one civ we don't need to worry about. They are OCC and quite backwards. I don't expect them to last too long. If Russia wanted to, they could sneeze and blow the Ottos out to sea.

As for Russia and China. I partly agree, but knowing how poorly the AI usually manages naval attacks, I think its inevitable that China will take back everything Russia gets. Russia did have at least one rifle in their contingent, so taking back cities from the Russians might not end up being so easy anyhow. My gut tells me to wait a little and hope Russia grabs Medina with the saltpeter. If so, we strike then, take the Russian cities, and then turn on China. But if it doesn't seem like Russia will be able to push for Medina, we'll have to use them as an ally and attack China instead. The next turn set, I imagine will end up guiding us.

Eventually we are going to have to stop handing China our horses.

 

[alerum68]

How goes it Oblivion?