Did the AI improve recently?

That would be really frickin nice! I hate how the AI always has one civ with 2 or 3 religions. It sucks balls.

I think hoarding religions is a decent strategy (er, at least, I tend to do it). It lets you maintain better diplomatic relations, since it's much easier to convince a civ to switch to your religion if they don't have the holy city of another. Also, I like to have the freedom to switch religions if my first religion's hero bites the dust.

Although with the new Life 3 buff, I guess that's not as much of a concern.
 
I think hoarding religions is a decent strategy (er, at least, I tend to do it). It lets you maintain better diplomatic relations, since it's much easier to convince a civ to switch to your religion if they don't have the holy city of another. Also, I like to have the freedom to switch religions if my first religion's hero bites the dust.

Although with the new Life 3 buff, I guess that's not as much of a concern.

You can only ressurrect civ heroes, not religious heroes.
 
I think hoarding religions is a decent strategy (er, at least, I tend to do it). It lets you maintain better diplomatic relations, since it's much easier to convince a civ to switch to your religion if they don't have the holy city of another. Also, I like to have the freedom to switch religions if my first religion's hero bites the dust.

Although with the new Life 3 buff, I guess that's not as much of a concern.

The difference is you, the human player, is doin it. The AI doin it is gay. Who controls the game? The human, NOT the AI.
 
The difference is you, the human player, is doin it. The AI doin it is gay. Who controls the game? The human, NOT the AI.

It's all about tech priorities. If you don't bother prioritizing a tech that lands you a holy city, you certainly don't deserve it unless of course you can take it.

Let's look at the same concept applied to other victory conditions.

I don't think the AI should be allowed to go for a conquest victory. They shouldn't be allowed to build massive armies and make the game challenging for me because I'm in control of the game, not the AI.

Doesn't that sound ridiculous to you? Intentionally leaving out a way for the AI to achieve each victory condition is silly like I said before. That's why there are toggles for victory conditions. Even though that might not stop an AI player from hoarding holy cities, it will make it so the game can only be won under the conditions you prefer, and everyone can play the way they want without anyone else being effected. Leaving out the coding would affect everyone whether they liked it or not.

The fact is anyone who wants a holy city will probably be able to manage getting at least one. Even if you tried and failed you can always capture them. You are smarter than the AI after all. Finally, if you didn't even bother to go for them but feel somehow entitled to them, use your army and go take them as you undoubtedly were spending that time getting more militarily viable techs.
 
I unnerstand all that. I'm jus sayin it's annoyin. We don't need to go off on a philosophical look at CivIV. (Jeese, I play this game to relax and NOT have to think too much. I think a lot already in college.) So, ty anyway.
 
If you're looking for a nice, relaxing game of FfH without too much challenge, consider lowering the difficulty level or using Worldbuilder to cheat yourself up some religions.

However, I think most people would agree that the ultimate goal for any AI is to be indistinguishable from a human player.

Except for the chat. I hope I never live to see the day when AI talks like some Internet denizens.
 
Except for the chat. I hope I never live to see the day when AI talks like some Internet denizens.

Log from a singleplayer game of Fall from Heaven II version 0.78c. The player is playing as Varn of the Malakim on Noble difficulty.

Hyborem: WTH noob!!! dnt DR if Im at war!
Varn: what? is this the AI?
Hyborem: ill ban u from gamespy, no 1 will play with u
Varn: no one plays with me now, this is single player...
Capria: crap, OOS
Hyborem: heya cap, r u a vag in rl? wanna private chat?
Dain: my mom says i have to logoff now, sorry I could only play 3 turns
<Dain has left the game>
Varn: What is happening?
Capria: Okay, Im working, why cant i cast ira unleashed?
Hyborem: thats what she said!

At this point the "make the AI indistinguishable from a human" project was abandoned.
 
I can't remember the last time I actually laughed out loud at something on the Internet. That was pretty great :)
 
So, the AI was talkin? WTH? I'm confused.

Edit: Oh, I get it. LOLOLOLOL! Sorry, I got home last night at 11PM. Was half asleep, as I am half the time.
 
However, I think most people would agree that the ultimate goal for any AI is to be indistinguishable from a human player.

I find that statement seriously amusing. Are you aware that the Lead Designer of the Civ 4 AI didn't share this opinion?
I'm talking about this lecture; notes of it are available e.g. here.

I completely agree with the sentiment of wanting competetive AIs for a challenging game, but this has never been the case in Civ4 on an even playing field - the AI becomes somewhat to seriously to (almost) unbeatably challenging only on high difficulties where it simply cheats, fullstop. The main reason why FFH II AIs were still beatable on Deity is because the AIs themselves still had problems, but I guess as they improvem more and more, their Deity advantages should begin to shine and make a much bigger impact.
Besides, one of the aspects of an "AI being indistinguishable from a human player" - judging e.g. from my playing style - would be focussing on the biggest threat, i.e. the real human player. I think most people would agree that having all AIs always allying against the human player would make them win the game much easier but make the game experience a lot worse.
Besides, one of the best examples for AI being less competetive is e.g. in raiding in MMORPGs, for example in WoW. It's trivial for a design team to design an unbeatable boss, but that doesn't make it a good boss. That's why these bosses use "aggro mechanics", for example - they attack the tank (or whatever unit has the biggest aggro value) instead of targetting the fragile healers first, which would make pretty much any boss literally undefeatable.
That being said, Civ4 is a lot different to games like Starcraft in this aspect. Except for a few differences (like fog of war, which AIs couldn't really handle when SC was designed and which they still have a hard time with now and the difficulty level, the AI is supposed to play the same game as the human. In Civ4, things like the diplomacy system are one-sided - this is one aspect where there's a fundamental design difference between the AI and the human player.


I'm looking forward a lot towards more of the AI improvements, but I also wondered about the difficulty setings in FFH II - I have no specific examples, but I guess some of the advantages of e.g. Deity (as in, for example, the free Settler) might not be as beneficial (or more beneficial, because in the case of Settlers, they cost 100 hammers more in FFH) as in the normal BTS. What about e.g. giving them one free civics change, or giving them other advantages that are more appropriate for FFH, while taking some that don't really make sense here away? For example if Deity AIs struggle with overexpansion due to their second Settler, this advantage could be changed somehow - either removed (I actually only play Immortal because I think a free 220 hammers unit a too big initial advantage - and after all, initial advantages have exponential returns...) or changed in such a way that it's actually more of an advantage for the AIs and less for warmongering human players :P.
 
Thanks for the laugh, Kael. That would be horrifying if it happened...
EDIT: Stolen (with credit) for sig. Say the word and I'll drop it, though.
[Countless millenia later...]
EDIT 2: I was not aware this would create a Death Mana node...
 
(Yes, this is an old thread, but it was linked to in KillerClowns' signature, so there. :p)

I find that statement seriously amusing. Are you aware that the Lead Designer of the Civ 4 AI didn't share this opinion?

On the other hand, me, and a number of others who far prefer multiplayer over single player, do share it.

"Making the AI more like a human" doesn't necessarily mean "making the AI more competitive" - there are humans who'd lose against even current AIs. It just means that I'm not forced to play with constant reminders about this being just a stupid old AI that doesn't really understand what's happening in the game, will repeat the same easily exploitable strategies game after game without ever getting any better, and in general can't adapt to new situations which haven't been programmed to it. It doesn't necessarily have to be great, or even good at adapting. It could be like the novice human player who realizes his plan just went to hell when I landed with a force of 20 tanks on his beach which is currently defended by three archers, and mounts a desperate yet finally useless improvised attempt at saving his behind - as long as it gives the impression of, well, having some sort of a clue.

Which, if properly done, makes it indistinguishable from a human player.
 
The key is wat makes it "done properly". You see, the basic limitin premise is that AI is a program. And unless AI is made as a learning program (which is very hard to do and not done a whole lot; in fact, some people [includin the design lead of Civ4, as evidenced by the lecture linked in MondSemmel's post] don't want games to be learnin programs cuz the game never forgets, whereas humans do), AI won't do anythin but wat has been programmed into it. So, it's only as advanced as we Humans make it.

And I think it'd be virtually impossible w/o expensive (as in $1,000+) and rare software to make the FfH AI indistinguishable from Humans. So, with the resources available to programmers who do moddin as a hobby, I think the FfH team has done a good job. In fact, a few other mods on this forum (Dragonia 2 and Warhammer) have used FfH code as their basecode.
 
Heh. The understatement of the year.

That's why I said $1,000+. ;) And yes, I toned it down a lil from wat I 1st was gonna write, so it is a bit of an understatement.
 
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