Dimensional spells?

Why should the dimensional sphere be especially good for the Balseraphs? It is the Shaim's sphere.

Since pretty much all summons come from other dimensions, I think this sphere should unique. I would like one that can transport an existing unit to the summoner's tile and one that creates a terrain feature that randomly creates summons, based on how much of each type mana you possess.
 
Kael has explicitly said that dimensional, body(iirc), spirit and mind mana will never have summons. Summon spells (again, according to Supreme Leader Kael), call creatures from the plane of the angel of the respective sphere. These spheres do not have planes. Incidentally, summon-killing spells would more likely fall under metamagic (when it comes out, which is probably will happen, given that the graphics for it are done and it is in 0.21 and back but dummied out) than dimensional. Metamagic has virtually exclusive dominion over spells that effect spells. Before you point out dispel magic, the smart money (imho) is on that going to Metamagic when it comes out.
 
/riposte

Floating Eye :p :p :p

edit,

wait a minute, don't Aeron, Mammon, and Sirona have their own planes?
 
/counterriposte

Floating eye is a divine spell and flavorwise animates a dead krakens eye instead of summoning it.

/finishblow

No plans for that. The 3 humanity spheres (body/mind/spirit) dont have any summons because their isnt a plane of that elements out there infested with creatures to draw from.

I was wrong about dimensional mana though, at least in that Kael hasn't said it won't get summons
 
/counterriposte

Floating eye is a divine spell and flavorwise animates a dead krakens eye instead of summoning it.

/finishblow



I was wrong about dimensional mana though, at least in that Kael hasn't said it won't get summons

:lol:

then what exactly is caster doing when he draws kraken into his current tile? :mischief:

If he's /animating/ a dead eye then why does it disappear at the end of the turn, but skeles remain permanent?

...might as well animate their brains too and turn it into a levitating unit that can charm, paralyze, and dominate other units. :crazyeye:

/parry
 
or you could view them as a representation of the caster's mind's eye and is viewing what the "eye' sees in his mind.
 
Preamble: my knowledge of FFH lore is limited, and I'm going to propose summoning spells even though Kael supposedly said Dimensional won't have them.

I've read through the thread and thought hard about what kind of spells I would like to have in the game. I've come up with the following guidelines first of all:

General guidelines:

Non-specificity: spells should apply to as broad a range of situations as possible. Thus spells that explicitly counter enemy summoning and nothing else are very useless, spells that only help during the siege of an enemy city are somewhat useless, and spells that damage enemy units are useful.

Feasibility: I will try to describe spells which, according to my limited understanding of the SDK, should be possible to implement without major coding efforts. I'm pretty sure this is where I will fail.

Coherence: especially in coming up with these guidelines I tried to look at how the team has done things so far and I tried to stick to that pattern.

SORCERY should be about directly interacting with the map or the enemy. Teleporting to another tile is interacting with the map.

SUMMONING should always be about creating a new unit. I disagree that dimensional summoning should be about interacting with the enemy's summons. If anything, that would fall under sorcery, but see general guidelines for why I don't think that's a good idea. Instead I think that the sphere used in coordination with summoning should have an effect on the attributes of the summoned creature.

DIVINE should be about interacting with your own units.

Of course like any nice and orderly system, this system must allow for exceptions. Ring of Flames is a great spell even though it breaks this system, and although according to my classifications Bloom and Poisoned Blades should switch positions, it makes more sense to let the priests of the leaves create forests.

LEVEL 2 SPELLS: the thing to keep in mind with these is that they can potentially be spammed. There is nothing stopping a player from building any number of channeling II spellcasters. Thus these spells must not break balance when spammed.

LEVEL 3 SPELLS: these are the archmage/conjuror/highpriest spells. I believe that these should be powerful because a player can only have a limited number of spellcasters with access to them (6, using death mana and liches) and because a significant amount of time must go into researching the tech and leveling the unit. Still I maintain that these spells must not be game breaking, as in it should not be possible to win a game relying solely on level 3 spells (I still believe the current implementation of Tsunami violates this rule; used on a coastal capital it can very quickly end a game).

Finally, I will put in brown below my spells what I consider optional additions. These might be optional because I suspect they'd be really hard to code or because I'm not sure if they're useful/functional/fun/balanced.

Also, you will notice that most of my suggestions pack a little more punch than what has been suggested so far. I tried to model the usefulness of these spells after the most successful spheres out there--fire, for instance, or enchantment.

Okay, after all this blabla, let's talk about the spell ideas I've had.

Channeling I: Escape is a very nice spell that I can see theoretical use for. I've never used it myself, but I think it works. Town Portal might be a more appropriate name ;)

One thing we may want to think about is to allow the adept to bring one additional unit with himself for each level of spell extension he has. I'm a little worried about this because it might be abusable; just add one adept for each unit in your invading army and never fear sudden assaults on the homeland while you're out invading anymore.

Sorcery II: Teleport. Teleports the mage to any tile within his civilization's cultural borders.

Apparently, Kael was planning something like this for Sorcery III. Frankly, I don't see the point in creating a level 3 spell that no one will take. As long as it only teleports the mage I can't imagine how this spell would be abusable. It will make for formidable defenses but only in combination with another sphere. Mages with only Dimensional II will be useless.

OPTIONALLY we could add a fail chance. This could decrease with the mage's level. If the spell fails, the mage may end up anywhere on the map at all. Of course he could try again next round, if he lives to see next round...

Sorcery III: Call Out. Valid targets are both enemy and friendly troops within 3 tiles (+1 per spell extension) of the mage. The main use of this spell is to pull enemy units out of stacks or even out of cities. The targeted unit will appear in the tile behind the caster (from its old point of view). If that tile is occupied, we find another tile around the caster that would be a valid tile to drop the target unit. If there are no such tiles, the spell fails. I can see great uses for this spell: is the enemy defending a city with a City Garrison III Heavy Crossbowman? Pull him out of the city and let your War Elephants stamp him into the ground. Also there could be less obvious uses for the spell. For instance, say an important unit of yours is badly injured and cannot move far away enough from the enemy to escape, but you do have that archmage standing a few tiles from that unit. Cast Call Out on your own unit to get it out of the enemy's range. Also, can you imagine how much fun it will be to create little death traps for Loki with the help of this spell?

I don't know if this spell should be resistible. I'd say no, because it's not a directly deadly spell, but the team will know better.

OPTIONALLY there could be a fail chance here as well, or maybe this will be triggered when the target unit resists. Instead of pulling the enemy unit towards himself, the archmage has fallen victim to Newton's Third Law of Motion: he has pulled himself to the tile one behind the target unit.

Divine II: Dimensional Door. I've been thinking long and hard about teleporting OTHER units. Clearly there is great potential for abuse in this. Still I wanted a teleport other spell at Channeling II, and I think I've come up with a way that should be hard to abuse.

This spell requires TWO spellcasters. One opens a dimensional door at the start point, and the other opens a dimensional door at the end point. One unit can then step into any dimensional door currently open and come out of any other dimensional door currently open. Doing so closes both doors. Like this you CAN bring troops to the front, but only at a rate of one unit per two priests per round. This additional cost (in upkeep and time and resources) should limit the spell sufficiently to keep it in balance.

OPTIONALLY there could be a VERY low chance that the priest opening the dimensional door accidentally opens a portal into an irate demon's bathroom. And the demon was just taking a shower. Instead of creating a usable dimensional door, the spell would summon a strength 4-5 demon in a tile next to the priest.

Divine III: Mass Teleport. Yeah, you read right: mass teleport. This will probably still need some tweaking, but here's my suggestion: a high priest with this spell can teleport all units on the same tile to any destination within his civ's cultural borders, excluding himself. I have a bunch of optional stuff for this spell:

OPTIONALLY, we could offer further target tiles: any tile within three tiles of either another highpriest of the same religion (maybe even one that doesn't belong to the same player?) or within three tiles of any city with a temple to this religion (in this case definitely including cities not owned by the player). If the spell is found too powerful, the highpriest could lose one level when casting it and also lose the spell, so he'd have to level up and take the spell again before he could use it again.

Summoning II: Summon Displacer Beast. Can't believe that's not in the game yet, especially considering this started as an AD&D setting ;) Summons a strength 3 / movement 2 Displacer Beast. The displacer beast has two special abilities: first, it can displace itself (which is, I am told, not at all like displacing one's keys), meaning it can teleport itself over a short distance (say 3 tiles plus one per spell extension). It's important to note that it can still attack AFTER teleporting itself. I don't know if that's going to be very hard to do with the current system, seeing as mages can't attack after casting. Second, it ignores city defenses when attacking a city (what's a wall to a beast that can simply appear behind the wall?).

Summoning III: Summon Shambler. Summons a horrible extraplanar monster. Strength should be about 10. The Shambler's real power shows only when it's defeated in battle, especially when attacking a large stack. It will randomly do one of the following things:

* Cause horrible amounts of collateral damage
* Infect everyone else in the stack with a disease
* Whither the target unit
* If attacking a city: reduce city defenses
* If attacking a city: reduce population by one (if population higher than one)
* Scatter stack: a number of units in the target stack are randomly teleported to tiles within 3x3 squares of the stack's original position.

I also have a pretty cool idea for a flavor text for the shambler, but let's not get ahead of ourselves ;)

Okay, this should be enough. I'm inviting any kind of feedback: what do you think of these spells?
 
Non-specificity: spells should apply to as broad a range of situations as possible. Thus spells that explicitly counter enemy summoning and nothing else are very useless, spells that only help during the siege of an enemy city are somewhat useless, and spells that damage enemy units are useful.

there already are a few spells that are really specific. like resurection that only works when your hero is dead

sanctify is almost useless with consecrated altar or a good civ

destroy undead is useless if the enemy dosnt have undead units

restore city is useless if you dont want more cities

loyalty and corage are useless if the armageddon counter is low

many of the buffs can be called useless if you dont use that many of that unit or most of your units already have that spell

dispell magic is useless by that definition if your enimies dont use magic
 
Hey kenken!

My rules were pretty much only for myself, as guidelines while creating dimensional spells. I tried to extract them from the general gist of spells in the game so far, so obviously there will be exceptions.

Even though this is pretty off-topic, I'll just have a look at your list and comment.

Resurrection is really not specific at all. I think you may have misunderstood what I meant with specific (or I may not have communicated it well). In practically every game that runs long enough, you will have a hero, and in most games there will be some amount of military tension. Now some people might protect their heroes very well, but I find that a determined enemy can almost always kill one of your heroes if he puts his mind to it (I'm talking human enemies; all my balance-talk is always based on multiplayer.).

Sanctify is used to remove "pollution", right? That is, the result of "defile". It's still pretty specific, I'll agree, but its use for a good civilization seeking to eliminate another through war while keeping the AC low should be clear.

Destroy Undead can be used against the Wraiths Ars Moriendi produces (assuming a game with a high AC in the end)

I think "not wanting more cities" is the exception rather than the rule.

I don't quite follow you on loyalty and courage. Why would these only be useful with a high AC?

I agree on dispel magic.

Again, though, my guidelines weren't meant as guidelines for redesigning or reevaluating the spells already in the game ;) They were just meant to help me achieve some amount of consistency with the rest of the spell system; I put them in my post to invite discussion of these guidelines and my application of them to my proposed spells.
 
i think that we could use dimensional mana to buff units, like maybe give them a 95% chance to withdraw from next combat Offense or deffense, and also maybe we could give the spell caster a permant buff for every level he learns.

for summoning i think we could just give the summoner the abality to summon the creature 3 to 7 tiles away could be usefull, so you would use it like a cast spell.
im not sure if any of these suggestions have already been mentioned i read throught the thread once.
 
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