Can't do anything without a save file and a bug report.
Diplomacy AI Development
- Thread starter Recursive
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- ai civ v diplomacy vox populi
Can't do anything without a save file and a bug report.
So throwing this out there. Should two Autocracy players get a stronger diplomacy bonus with each other than two Freedom or Order civs would?
My reasoning is this. Autocratic civs tend to be warlike, and so even if they have a decent relationship with you they still tend to want to pull the trigger. Aka that diplomatic bonus from sharing the same ideology is effectively weaker than it is with Order or Freedom civs. So to counter that, we could increase the bonus to make it the "the same effective diplomacy".
Curious what people think about that.
My reasoning is this. Autocratic civs tend to be warlike, and so even if they have a decent relationship with you they still tend to want to pull the trigger. Aka that diplomatic bonus from sharing the same ideology is effectively weaker than it is with Order or Freedom civs. So to counter that, we could increase the bonus to make it the "the same effective diplomacy".
Curious what people think about that.
InkAxis
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Is there a big problem with autocracy civs declaring war on other autocracy civs? It doesn't seem like a thing that happens that often and when it does it's not a big issue - they should go to war if they need to. Also if the AI is good at selecting who to declare war at it shouldn't be a problem anyway.
Report this on Github, please.
I had a similar experience, I'm guessing it's because it's like the last spot you can settle so every AI has it as their next best spot to settle.
Fixed by ilteroi.
LifeOfBrian
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Recursive, I'm loving the revamped AI "personalities" so far in the new version!
I'm glad! Mind sharing what you love about them? Feedback is nice!
World Congress AI honestly isn't great and contains a large random factor, @Milae plans to rework it in the next few weeks.
Here's a good example that shows the voluntary vassalage is just overtuned at the moment in 3-2. Japan is in a solid place, has a decent score, good infrastructure, not being crushed by anyone. But he just offers to be my vassal out of the blue.
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Yeah, that's a bit much.
LifeOfBrian
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Recursive, I'm playing with Askia, Casimir, Catherine, Gustavus, Pacal, Ramkhamheng and Shaka. I feel they really are distinct personalities, with all of them being very quick to respond to what's going on at the world, sometimes with very quick declarations of war or denouncements, and in this version I'm actually succeeding in getting the AI to sometimes promise to not settle next to me at the start of the game (mainly Siam and the Maya), which wasn't the case in VP for a long time. Perhaps just one note of concern - I'm seeing quite a lot of backstabbing in the first 100 turns or so, with the AI making a DoF with me or another AI and then 10 turns or so later denouncing. Not sure what the case is, but they'd be almost always be better off rescinding the DoF first and then waiting to denounce/DoW. Just something to take a look at when you'll have a chance. Just so I know - if I have gamelogging enabled, can I share gamelogs here or do you prefer GitHub? And is this guide still valid for logging - https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/how-to-enable-logging.487482/ ?
LifeOfBrian
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@Recursive , has there been a change to how the "You are trade partners" modifier works? I've been trying to appease my warmongering neighbours by giving them 12-14 gpt like in the olden days, but no diplo modifier appears after that, unlike before when it appeared after gifting gold or resources?
Not an intentional change. Bug report?
LifeOfBrian
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Ah, ok, I'll make a bug report on Github, I thought it might have been somehow changed and rolled into other diplo modifiers.
I have a few notes/questions from my only game this patch (March 2). I won't post the World Congress issues because I'm pretty sure those are currently being reworked by someone else on Git.
Here's a situation where I don't agree with how the diplo turned: Napoleon and I were tight buddies all game, but things eventually got testy so I decided to check the modifiers. I noticed 2 negative modifiers, one each (-72) for "competing for world wonders" and "believe we are building wonders too aggressively", but those feel kind of redundant to me considering how much weight they each carried. Egypt had also built a few more wonders than me at the time; it's not like I was hogging them all. I have 8 positive modifiers for a total of +215 diplo, meanwhile only 4 negative, but they total a whopping -240 -- I will acknowledge the fact I'm missing a big positive modifier with him for fighting the same foe (Askia) in multiple wars, a bug that I believe has already been addressed for next version, but I still don't know if that would be enough to save the relationship.
I saw some opposing civs react oddly while liberating several cities. Here we have Songhai extremely grateful for my liberation of Ur, despite me capturing it from Shaka, who was the vassal of Askia at the time...
Here I return a city to Shaka, but he apparently doesn't appreciate enough to even appear on the list of grateful civs. Meanwhile, I captured the city from Hiawatha, yet he's the most grateful for my liberation...
Here's the same thing essentially; I resurrected England, yet Iroquois (the civ who eliminated England in the first place) is the most grateful despite being the civ who lost the city. Ultimately he kept taking the city(s) back and she would never live again, but I still consider it weird behavior.
How is the situation handled when a civ who owns a vassal(s) is themselves conquered to the brink? Shouldn't a player be able to conquer a civ and gain their associated vassal(s)? Songhai was Zulu's master for the middle chunk of the game, then France and I managed to break through after another declaration from Askia, and it was Napoleon who beat me to Gao. I was upset that France seized the opportunity, but he made peace without capitulation, to my surprise. I then kept pushing for enough war score to capitulate Askia myself, liberating Riga in the process, but it seemingly wouldn't go over 84 -- I believe 85 is the threshold for capitulation -- and I had to back off due to weariness. He would go on to become Spain's vassal once Zulu became independent, though I initially missed when that all transpired, and Zulu would end the game hitched to France. The Glorious One needs some clarification and finds the confusion surrounding these conditions ironic, considering all the domination games Supreme Leader has tallied over the years...
Does this response actually result in anything diplomatically?
How about this one? Now that civs may denounce while already at war, can you still trigger their opinion to temporarily be set to neutral when selecting "You'll pay for this in time..."? I would think neither of these responses trigger anything while already at war, but figured to ask.
This is a small bug, but I'll throw it in here: Askia hates me for capturing his original capital (-160), even though it was France who took Gao in our previous joint-war. At no time did I ever control Gao. I eventually liberated Gao for Askia, and the modifier drops to -80, but there shouldn't be any negative modifier at all, in fact, there should be a positive one for my heroic efforts to return his capital despite him being terrible toward me for the majority of the game...
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@Kim Dong Un
Hmm, I set it so that "cultural civs" apply the max penalty for wonder competition if you're a wonder spammer and removed the +20 penalty increase in exchange. Obviously they do not balance out, but your diplo problem here is that Napoleon has high WonderCompetitiveness and has selected the "cultural" personality. This is intended for the AI to remain competitive, and I note that he still shows up as Friendly (although he might be plotting against you).
In addition, he believes you're competing with him for the same victory condition, and on top of the opinion modifier this one has strong approach penalties.
There seems to be some weirdness around city liberation, these effects are a bug that I'll look into.
Forgiving the AI for spying gives a temporary opinion bonus of 10. Not forgiving them does not apply this bonus and removes it if present. I think this modifier is kind of dumb but it's harmless, I guess.
Choosing the insulting response adds 150 to "recent assist value", which in the absence of countervailing "pleasing actions" weight, applies the maximum temporary "Your recent diplomatic actions disappoint them." modifier. AI will then choose either to declare war on you or to set their approach to Neutral until the next time approach is updated. Despite the text, it has no effect on opinion. I should fix that.
Choosing the insulting response while at war does nothing.
Choosing the non-insulting response does nothing.
Capital conquest flag being set for a liberator is a bug, it's supposed to only be set when you conquer a city directly from the owner. Will investigate.
Thanks!
Hmm, I set it so that "cultural civs" apply the max penalty for wonder competition if you're a wonder spammer and removed the +20 penalty increase in exchange. Obviously they do not balance out, but your diplo problem here is that Napoleon has high WonderCompetitiveness and has selected the "cultural" personality. This is intended for the AI to remain competitive, and I note that he still shows up as Friendly (although he might be plotting against you).
In addition, he believes you're competing with him for the same victory condition, and on top of the opinion modifier this one has strong approach penalties.
There seems to be some weirdness around city liberation, these effects are a bug that I'll look into.
Forgiving the AI for spying gives a temporary opinion bonus of 10. Not forgiving them does not apply this bonus and removes it if present. I think this modifier is kind of dumb but it's harmless, I guess.
Choosing the insulting response adds 150 to "recent assist value", which in the absence of countervailing "pleasing actions" weight, applies the maximum temporary "Your recent diplomatic actions disappoint them." modifier. AI will then choose either to declare war on you or to set their approach to Neutral until the next time approach is updated. Despite the text, it has no effect on opinion. I should fix that.
Choosing the insulting response while at war does nothing.
Choosing the non-insulting response does nothing.
Capital conquest flag being set for a liberator is a bug, it's supposed to only be set when you conquer a city directly from the owner. Will investigate.
Thanks!
