Diplomacy - How will it work ?

[fe3333au]

I have my own ideas ... however I would prefer to see what you all think ...

I am assuming that this will be an entirely new facet to the traditional demogame (where everyone is a member of the same civilization) ...

Spoiler Constitution :

Article III- Leadership.

5) The Foreign Minister determines trades and declarations of war, peace, alliances, and MPP. All dealings with other nations must be approved by the Minister. He appoints a single Diplomat to every remaining team. He must act as a Diplomat when one is absent or someone cannot fill the position. This position shall be elected every term.

6) The Diplomats to other teams are appointed by the Foreign Minister. They shall be responsible for discussions and trades with other teams.

Questions ...

> Will the interaction with the other teams be totally role playing?
> Will the correspondence be vetted by Foreign Minister?
> Will all correspondence be archived?
> Will correspondence be only to a specific contact address?
> Will the diplomat be the only member of MIA who can interact with the other team?
> can a Diplomat broker deals without Foreign Minister permission?

These sort of questions I'd like to have sorted out prior to first contact ....

 

[General_W]

Good questions!

Here's my initial reaction to them:

> Will the interaction with the other teams be totally role playing?

I vote YES
I think doing this would be much more fun!

> Will the correspondence be vetted by Foreign Minister?

I think goals & objectives - as well as what kind of things the team is willing to "put on the table" should be vetted by the Foreign Minister - but the actual text and correspondence can be left up to the diplomats.
The diplomats can make this clear to the people they are talking to. ie… "I think we may have worked out a deal here! I think I can convince my Greek comrades to trade you the secrets of Iron Working for Pottery and 100 gold. I'll check with them right away, and let you know their answer."
This gives diplomats more of a free hand – and even lets them get a "good cop –bad cop" thing going… like car salesmen! You know, "I'd love to give you this deal, but I gotta check with my manger first"

> Will all correspondence be archived?

Absolutly. Yes. Each enemy team should have it's own correspondence history thread. IMO.

> Will correspondence be only to a specific contact address?

I think this would be great - just for making sure we don't lose track of something as we rotate diplomats.

> Will the diplomat be the only member of MIA who can interact with the other team?

I'd vote YES
We risk blowing a delicate diplomatic dance if everyone is talking to the other team at the same time. Too many cooks ruin the meal.

> can a Diplomat broker deals without Foreign Minister permission?

No! "Potential" deals can be worked out... but final approval will always be a power of the Foreign Minister.

Ok - that's my take!
Looking forward to hearing the other opinions!

 

[Kentharu]

you must have read my mind General_W but i will stress even more that diplomats should not go through with deals without the foreign ministers apporval it would be VERY stupid to do that period
roleplay yes totally makes the game more fun

 

[peter grimes]

I am almost wholly in agreement with GeneralW. As for interacting with the other team if you're not the designated Diplomat, I see nothing wrong with citizen to citizen contact and verbal exchanges. But if they start getting nosy and you feel uncomfortable in a conversation, just kindly refer the offending citizen to our embassy, where they may request an audience with our diplomat.

 

[fe3333au]

Good point Grimsey ... I was waiting for such a comment ... this is related to the increase in role playing which will be occuring in the main UN thread ...

I assume pubs will be set up at some stage ... however we should possible work out what citzens will not be able to discuss ... and the Captain of the Team, as the discipinary officer will be required to monitor and act ... much like a parliamentary whip ...

 

[peter grimes]

As for Diplomats who displease the Foreign Minister... I assume that because they were appointed by fiat, they may also be recalled by fiat. All agree?

 

[General_W]

they were appointed by fiat, they may also be recalled by fiat. All agree?

Love it.
Live by the sword. Die by the sword.

 

[fe3333au]

Hmmm ... I like the recall option ... ... that could work very well indeed

 

[RegentMan]

You could also organize chats with other teams over MSN or mIRC. That way, everyone can be there and watch the action unfold!

 

[Meleager]

You have to remember that other teams might not even have official diplomats. Could get interesting.

 

[Kentharu]

thats true.. i remember one of the teams said they have no offices or anythign just anarchy

 

[Black_Hole]

i would say that only the Foreign Minister and Diplomat to that team should discuss trades, if anyone else is then it will get quite confusing if one of our citizens says one thing and the diplomat says another

 

[ybbor]

I have my own ideas ... however I would prefer to see what you all think ...

I am assuming that this will be an entirely new facet to the traditional demogame (where everyone is a member of the same civilization) ...

Spoiler Constitution :

Article III- Leadership.

5) The Foreign Minister determines trades and declarations of war, peace, alliances, and MPP. All dealings with other nations must be approved by the Minister. He appoints a single Diplomat to every remaining team. He must act as a Diplomat when one is absent or someone cannot fill the position. This position shall be elected every term.

6) The Diplomats to other teams are appointed by the Foreign Minister. They shall be responsible for discussions and trades with other teams.

when I was writing the constitution I had no idea how this would work out, I was hoping a foreign minister would set the precedent- and odds are fe- you're it.

If i was foreign minister- which I'm not- this is how i would visualize the department be run:

> Will the interaction with the other teams be totally role playing??

I would imagine no; role playing should be a separate section of the game. (the only role you play is a salesman- "hey! I have a terrific deal for ya', how'd ya' like to get 3000 elephant tusks delivered right to your door for 20 years for a measly down-payment of 1 mere sheet of paper! all you have to do is place the secret to steam power on that sheet of paper- plus! act within the next 5 turns and I'll throw in this lovely...can opener!")

> Will the correspondence be vetted by Foreign Minister??

I don't see why- that would make the diplomats powerless

> Will all correspondence be archived??

what?

> Will correspondence be only to a specific contact address??

I would say that's up to the diplomat

> Will the diplomat be the only member of MIA who can interact with the other team??

the only member (well along with the foreign minister and maybe pres and team cpt.) who can discuss any content relating to the game or the team

> can a Diplomat broker deals without Foreign Minister permission?

Here's how I see the diplomat-Foreign minister relation working out. The Idea of a trade (either initiated by us or them) is brought to the foreign minister and he sets a series of guidelines for the deal. The diplomat then works through those guidelines to negotiate the best possible deal for the team. below is an example.

Spoiler Steam Power :

KISS approaches diplomat and tells us they have steam power and are interested in making a deal. diplomat tells foreign minister [and team?] foreign minister says what things are in play (techs, cities, maps, intelligence, etc.) and says that we cannot pay more than 58 gpt, and may only offer 1 luxury. diplomat then approaches KISS and proposes 30 gpt for steam power. KISS rejects, diplomat throws in luxury, hammers out deal, convinces KISS and in the end we pay 48 gpt. and silks. we then rejoice as send captured KISS slaves to work in the coal mines D)

 

[fe3333au]

Great people ... we are getting some interesting approaches ... keep them coming ...

I guess I am suggesting that we as a team ... develop our own style to these official interactions ...

Another thing I've been musing about (what else can one do with rain sleet snow and fog outside ) ... we have fantastic artists (looks up at the post directly above) and we have and are acquiring more ... Resources ... Lux and Strat ...

With the Lux primarily ... would it not be querky (and also impressive) to present the negotiating/trade missions with a 'gift' to present at table ...

These 'Gifts' and/or 'Samples' would be in the form of a graphic ...

eg. Fantasy Scenario which I hope is untrue ... TNT who have tobacco to trade, present our delegates with a box of cigarettes (ie the red hot booted chick) ...

We have Ivory and soon Tobacco ... lets start thinking about that ... whoever designs or finds something should post it on the Duty free Gift Shop

 

[Kentharu]

how about this anyone in the team can talk to another team unless the diplomat closes discussion because he wants to go 1on1 with the other teams diplomat and work out a deal or something of that nature

 

[classical_hero]

Questions ...

> Will the interaction with the other teams be totally role playing?
> Will the correspondence be vetted by Foreign Minister?
> Will all correspondence be archived?
> Will correspondence be only to a specific contact address?
> Will the diplomat be the only member of MIA who can interact with the other team?
> can a Diplomat broker deals without Foreign Minister permission?

These sort of questions I'd like to have sorted out prior to first contact ....

1. No. There will be some role playing, but mostly team contact should be official.
2. Of course. All diplomatic relations with othe nation should always go through the Foreign Minister.
3. Most definitely. That was one of the failures of the ISDG. We must keep everything. That way we can show the agreements between each team we have met. This will make it easier for us to show shich team is in the right and which is in the wrong.
4. Not necessarily. There are other means that we can use to make the discussion interactive, so that rather than waiting a few days to get an agreement done, we can almost do it instantly.
5. No, but he is the only one that can make offical offers to other teams with the blessing of the Foreign Minister.
6. No. All deal should really be ratified by a vote.

 

[fe3333au]

In regards to keeping a record of all 'official' correspondence ... I think that it is essential ... and would strongly suggest that an archive for each team be kept it would contain
> all the to and from 'official' correspondence
> any 'gift' given and recieved ...

It would also be used to keep track of turn times for ROPs, Lux trades, etc

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

Here is how the Diplomacy worked in the ISDG, and I like it:

The Foreign Minister sets what will be talked about at a chat, and is head of policy. The Ambassador just presents what is given to him and makes no choices himself. However, since he is in constant communication with the team for which he is an ambassador too, he advises the Foreign Minister. However, the Foreign Minister can override the ambassador at any time, and can take over a chat. Generally, the ambassador only needs to be in contact or at chats, however it is a lot easier if members of the government are there. Obviously, if another official can present something better than the ambassador, he does it. The Foreign Minister can talk to the team too, as can the president and the Team Captain on a regular basis, but it is proffered that diplomacy is done via the ambassador. If the ambassador can not make a chat, the Foreign Minister does it for him. If the rival team demands an answer immediately, the ambassador still may not make an agreement, and must wait for someone of authority to give permission. This is why it is important that a elected official be on deck in case of crisis.


Role-play plays a second role to diplomacy, and should only be done really at the beginning and at the end. However, this can be changed to the other team’s preference. All official correspondence is posted in the embassy, personal talks where the other team leaks info is also posted at the will of the MIA person who obtained it (he is not obliged to.) Correspondence should bee limited to one team e-mail, but it’s ok if it is not.

Anyone who wants to come to a chat may come, and speak if they like. However, all official stuff should be done with a government official. If the ambassador or other government official asks it, other team members may be forbidden to talk during a chat to make things easier. However, two chat rooms should be made, one for us, and one for the diplomacy table.

 

[peter grimes]

Emp. Napolean is speaking from vast experience, at least that's what it seems to me. I move that we should follow his guidelines, unless others raise objections or refinements.

Personally, I think that ambassadors should be granted wide latitude in conversation and negotiation. The more the ambassador is 'in' with the target, the more useful info or tradebooty we're likely to get. Think of it this way: You know 'ol-Gil', the Willy Loeman salesman on The Simpsons? Our ambassadors will do well to emulate his techniques.

 

[fe3333au]

I too am leaning towards this ... my only concern is the chat stuff ... not everyone can chat ... I am only an AIMer myself ...

related to this is that a record should be archived ... chat has no record ... does the Diplomat then need to write a report for the team?

Keep it up guyz ... we are close to bashing it into shape ...