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Diplomacy with the Eagles

Discussion in 'The Knights’ Brotherhood' started by Lanzelot, Apr 20, 2011.

Page 13 of 13
  1. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    No, their spicies for 11 gpt we pay. We may think that we dont know about their trade with DK

    Anyway thank them for friendly support.
     
    I. Larkin, Nov 19, 2011
    #241
  2. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    F2 shows that they have traded their spices away...
     
    Lanzelot, Nov 19, 2011
    #242
  3. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Here is my first attempt on what to say to the Eagles.

     
    Lanzelot, May 14, 2012
    #243
  4. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    i am not too fond of a few details of your text, but practically it will serve its purpose. just rephrase it a little bit so to make the text a bit more fluent maybe.
    and why not include my suggestion of that demand for The Village? i guess i understand the reason why, it is because you want to follow justanicks idea of long negotiations. but i am not fully convinced here, and if they give up any ideas about your continent (for the moment) this could be very beneficial. you could rush at least 2 immediate settlers from there to resettle that land! corruption of the town does not mean too much here.

    t_x
     
    templar_x, May 15, 2012
    #244
  5. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Most probably Eagles reject . Will we start war? Do we have an agreement with Kuhe that they support us at war?
     
    I. Larkin, May 15, 2012
    #245
  6. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Perhaps I can ask whether they would sell it for something. But we will certainly not start a war for it: I have the impression that the Küche is "not yet ready".
     
    Lanzelot, May 15, 2012
    #246
  7. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    What we may offer to eagles?

    And if we want peace, why we list all things that they had cooperation with Anarhos?
     
    I. Larkin, May 15, 2012
    #247
  8. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    i am just a lurker with a preferred status now, but i do not understand why you do not want to demand that town or else go to war SO CLAERLY. the Eagles have no military to speak of currently, and it will take a few turns until this changes. now you want to leave them alone to build unis and banks? they will have the best use of their GA now. maybe even better disturb them now and have their shields "wasted" in units, rather than face a completely optimized enemy in 20 turns, with infra AND troops. because this is what will happen.

    and even for the Küche an apparent solo attack from your side would be benefitial! then the Eagles build a fleet, carry units over to you which you can kill, and they can attack their flank then.

    t_x
     
    templar_x, May 15, 2012
    #248
  9. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Your points are very good. The only reason why I don't want to go to war now is: war happiness! If they can lower lux to 0% during GA, it probably makes 50-60gpt for them. (And I have the feeling, that WH is somehow broken in multi-player?! Apparently we still had WH from the Anarcho's DoW, even after losing 3 towns and a few dozen units!!) I want them to declare, not vice versa.

    Edit: If war of aggression, then we need to make some real damage, i.e. take out 1-2 core cities. But our fleet is not in the position to transfer a sufficiently large force over in the next 5-10 turns. Therefore a DoW now would only help them. And in 10 turns, when our fleet is ready, they will probably already have adequate defenses (and most probably Cavs), so a landing then would easily be a disaster.
     
    Lanzelot, May 16, 2012
    #249
  10. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    the WH argument is indeed valid, especially if
    - it is really broken in MP-games. how could it be though that this is not known?
    - losing one town is not enough to lose the WH anyway.

    any way you go, i think you should post something in the Eagles thread. you may suggest that they show that they accept the souvereignity of your continent by handing over that town... then you can still somehow "accept" if they decline.

    t_x
     
    templar_x, May 16, 2012
    #250
  11. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Why not consider lux for City deal?
     
    I. Larkin, May 16, 2012
    #251
  12. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    The lux is worth too much during their GA. The town is worth almost nothing.
     
    Lanzelot, May 17, 2012
    #252
  13. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    Calis´ post goes into your direction anyway, L. now you can easily decline at least this offer with the argument that the town is practically worthless, to either side. THEY CAN GIFT IT TO YOU AS A SIGN OF THEIR GOOD WILL, but no, a lux for 20 turns is way way out of reach for what they have to give. what about Chem? :groucho:

    t_x
     
    templar_x, May 17, 2012
    #253
  14. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    Calis diplo has grown from mediocre to pretty bad. i suspect it dawns on them that their position is deteriorating, while they have different opinions on how to move on.

    this could be the pattern for a reply:

    dear calis,
    it does not matter at all whose fault it was, and we find it strange you bring that up when we did not. never mind. but it is a fact that you gave techs and money to the Anarchie, who were our enemy. that they backstabbed us in the middle of a PD is a matter of fact, and SO MUCH you actually do know, but this does not matter.
    the Anarchie is gone, and what does matter is what the remaining 3 civilizations make out of this situation. our past was tense, that is a fact. the future is yet unwritten.
    however, your "offer" obviously lacks a smiley. you cannot be seriously proposing a "lux for crap town" deal. this would bring you about 50 gpt [whatever the number could be] and us about 3gpt. just to put it plain, this is not going to happen, and we do not really appreciate if we are offered merely a chance to prove totally stupid.
    your other decision regarding settlements on our continent was wise and may foster the hope that relations of our nations will improve. also reading between the lines of your former post that you plan to respect the souvereignity of our continent was perceived positively. to this regard, it would be appreciated if you would just hand over the Village to us - accepted and outside of any deals. if you were in our situation, you would surely consider any settlement of the other continent on your own as hostile in tendency, and it is hard to see anything else in it. (whether you took one town or ten in "that deal", it is quite obvious that the decision was based on the possibility or impossibility of defense plus to create alternatives to a war scenario - here we go: let us try that.) the benefit of that town is minimal for you and minimal for us, so this should not be too hard a decision.
    for everything else, especially tech deals even planning as far into the future as for your free IA tech, we would wait for your suggestions. (btw, if we want to talk seriously, it surely is beneficial if we manage to do so in shorter periods than 2 weeks.)
    of course, we could not offer tech-for-tech deals, as we only were able to build markets until now, and no libs. but it is more efficient if one party makes the money and the other one creates the beakers, with the multipliers respectively, anyway.
    Regards,
    knights


    i just wrote what came to my mind, no double-checking, no double-thinking.
    t_x
     
    templar_x, May 17, 2012
    #254
  15. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    I am affraid this answer not flexible. We need Village and agreement that "no Eagles on our continent". Take into account that City generate more then 3 gpt, it is food and at lest 1 spt. Also size itself is a value. Fourth Lux indeed costs a lot, but we have to negotiate fair price. Or go to war.

    What we and Kuche prefer?
     
    I. Larkin, May 17, 2012
    #255
  16. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Küche prefers that we give the lux to them. This is best in my opinion as well. I think there is a big risk that the Eagles simply "steam-roll" the Küche once they get Cav, and then we would be without an ally... Alone we have no chance against the Eagles.
    (The Eagles are fully developed, all cities size 12, libs, some universities and probably markets. Just take a look at the demographics that justanick posted in our common thread... )
    So we need to help the Küche as good as possible, and not make the Eagles any stronger...

    templar's points are right. Only the "tone" is a bit too hostile.
     
    Lanzelot, May 18, 2012
    #256
  17. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    ok. Let continue useless negotiations. What situation with GP now? How far Kuche from it?
    Will we research Astronomy? Or just feed Kuche with money? May be we work out fast military plan?
     
    I. Larkin, May 18, 2012
    #257
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