Diplomancy, why do they walk over me?

[Vosje]

I'm having trouble fending off the AI with it's silly requests for free stuff. Now I'm on a good base with most of my opponents thanks to shared religion, open borders, resource trades, peaceful times, etc. I'm playing mostly a pacifistic role, working on culture and developments instead, with a bunch of military units to keep my cities save.

So Ceasar walks up to me and asks if he can have have Mathematics for free. I say no, because I just dumped all my gold into research so I could get it. He gets all upset, and he attacks me a few turns later. (touchy guy)

I ask him previously if he wants to trade technology with me, and his tech list is all red along with the reason "We don't want to trade this just yet."

Do I need a bigger army to get these kinds of moochers off my back or to get them on my side? Or do I need to offer them free stuff on a timely base to keep them appeased and have them trust me more?

Maybe I should just wipe out Rome at the next opportunity when he declares war again.

 

[UberCivver]

From my understanding, I believe the computer players pay attention to army size, etc. I have had games (and read posts) where I go to war with one neighbor, shift my forces to his border, only to have another neighbore take advantage of that fact and invade my undefended border. In games where I have had a decent to large size military, I get less moochers. As you've said, same religion helps a ton, as does open borders.
I say take the initiative in some cases and ask them what they would give you for your techs you don't find too important. Every successful trade helps in the long run. Hope I could help.
-UberCivver

 

[Good Omens]

Some leaders are just more naturally pushy than others. Julius, Saladin, Kublai Khan, Napoleon...these guys are just like schoolyard bullies threatening you for your lunch money. If they sense you're weak, they'll keep pushing. You can try a few things; give in each time and hope to keep the peace, build up an attacking force and beat them up after school, or refuse and get wailed on.

As you originally said, wiping Rome out would help alot. Just try to make sure that he can't use his Pretorians. They're the equivalent of dog poop on a stick.

Or did I strech the analogy too far?

 

[Vosje]

Ah, yeah I didn't have the problem with Catherine. Though like you mentioned, Kablish Kahn has been doing the same to me. (He asked me for music, it was rather awkward) It's nice to see they gave the AI their own personalities.

I'll go with building up a bigger army then. Thanks for the tips.

 

[snepp]

I noticed a couple of times that civs will be reluctant to do certain things like declare war and stop trading, because they're afraid of the other civ. So I'd think it would make sense that having more military power would reduce alot of the bullying.

 

[Elerion]

Try the following:
When the bullying civilization attacks you, load a previous save (2-10 turns) and play the exact same way - they'll attack at the exact same time every time.

There are two approaches that work to delay/stop their attack:
1. Please them. Give them gifts. If their army size is so much bigger than yours that they are wanting war, you are likely (or hopefully, at least) ahead on technology. Give them some scraps. Alternately convert to their religion.
2. Build a larger army. If you load a savegame that is 5-6 turns earlier, you should be able to crank out at least one good defensive unit in every city. This is often enough to delay the war declaration until they can build their military even stronger.

In the end I've found that to handle aggressive neighbours, you have two real choices: Beat them at their own game (go on the offense), or make friends with them from the start, including religion. Once they've got their eyes on your juicy cities, it's really hard to get them as allies. Trying to defend against their war raiders isn't always that hard, but it will stunt your development so much that any other expansionist/technological civs will pull ahead.

 

[suspendinlight]

Diplomacy is interesting in this game in that you do sometimes have to give things away for free, to friends of course (or much bigger enemies who will destroy you). But I have also found that if you cultivate strong friendships with AI civs they will often give you things for free in return as well. I have had friendly civs give me techs for free, ally with me against an enemy for nothing, and give me resources but I have had to give up these things as well. So build these relationships and try requesting things from your allies. The even better news is that there is no diplomatic penalty for "asking" for help from friends (as opposed to "demanding" from neutral or enemy civs)!

 

[snepp]

Try the following:
When the bullying civilization attacks you, load a previous save (2-10 turns) and play the exact same way - they'll attack at the exact same time every time.

There are two approaches that work to delay/stop their attack:
1. Please them. Give them gifts. If their army size is so much bigger than yours that they are wanting war, you are likely (or hopefully, at least) ahead on technology. Give them some scraps. Alternately convert to their religion.
2. Build a larger army. If you load a savegame that is 5-6 turns earlier, you should be able to crank out at least one good defensive unit in every city. This is often enough to delay the war declaration until they can build their military even stronger.

I can vouch for this, sometimes even upgrading a handful of units is enough. Newer units have a significantly higher "power rating". If you take a peak at your power score before upgrading a large number of units you will see a very noticable spike.

 

[quail]

In my game just now I had the Mongols declare war on me, and for the first time got one of my friends to declare war on him (he did it for only a tech or two). It worked amazingly well; he had barely any units to hold both of us off, and I mowed through his cities with no trouble.

 

[Big J Money]

Vosje, you have to take some realistic things into account here:

There are only two ways to deal with a true bully. React similarly or be submissive. That's the beauty of being one; you force others to react to you. Actually, if you think about it, if your tactics as a player were to bully, the AI might also wonder why it can't bully you effectively because every time it tries, you start a war! So, it sucks that you are being bullied, but you have to realize that this Civ is limiting your options. You can do the same to the less-aggressive civs if your military is strong. You can pressure them into giving you things over several turns, and if they never do, take them to war.

There is one way you can turn these requests around to your advantage, too. If the civ who is requesting things from you isn't one of the more aggressive civs (and they will), you should probably give in to their requests the first few times, no matter what. This will not have the same affect as being submissive to a bully. Rather, it will just make them more friendly towards you. In order for this to work, though, you positively must give them what they want the first time they ask. Not only will this avoid a -1 diplomacy modifier, but it will give a +1 modifier. That's a total +2 difference the two reactions have from each other. You should try to get open borders with any civ you have helped, or else you are losing that early +2 advantage.

What I'd REALLY like to know -- and this would prove how good the AI really is -- is if Firaxis designed it so that the AI has all these same kinds of interactions with each other! Do they demand from each other?

=$= Big J Money =$=

 

[Paradoxus]

This entire problem stems from no proper military advisor. There is no way to tell if they are bullying or they really have a huge army. This really ruins things for me as I used to check often to make sure I was never weak to another Civ but did not want to have a huge army wasting money.

Maybe a patch will add something to the Military screen.

 

[Vosje]

Thanks for the replies. I have a hard time getting help while being under attack from another civ, or even form a defensive pact before that happens, because all civilizations are in love with each other for some reason, even though I'm quite friendly with some of them.

Do they ever war with each other? I'm playing on a fairly low level (warchief, just starting out) and I'm curious if they'll become more aggressive towards each other at a higher level. They all act like hippies except those that feel the need to be given tribute. "What do you think of Khan?" "Oh I just adore that guy!"

I'm going to start over and expand my army faster this time.

 

[The Duff Man]

In my noble game as Inca I have layed the smack on both the Romans and the Milanese. On a lark I thought I would ask the Americans for fish as tribute, and the Arabs for Rice. Both were farther away from me than the two opponents whose cities I have captured. They both gave it to me!

Of course, my military is huge....

 

[Dairuka]

A good way to tell if a civilization is bullying you - is to look at the power-score.

If you're 1/2th of his power rating, then yes; hes bullying you.

 

[Big J Money]

I don't think it even needs to be as low as 1/2. Pretty much anything lesser than him military wise, possibly even with a greater score.

=$=

 

[nattivillin]

i think i check the power scores every 5 turns or so. Then when someone comes "knocking" for free stuff, i know if they will go to war if i say no or not.

 

[nho3]

The AI civs do go to war with each other. The other day I was playing and the french went to war with another civ and asked me to join. I said no then a few turns later whoever it was the french went to war with asked me to help them kill the french. I ignored them both. The french ended up getting his but kicked and his civ shrunk quite a bit. I just wish ceasar hadn't declaired war on me

 

[cianos]

Last game I played, I refused open borders for everyone, until I could get a sense of their locations. I only opened my borders to civs that has a civ inbetween us, way way late in the game. I played a very aggressive neutral role. In otherwords I stayed out of everything, turned to open religion emancipation as soon as possible etc.

This was in Chieften setting, but only one civ had a rating of pleased. All others where cautious. I would respond to all their resource offers as long as it was not oil/iron etc.

I ended up wining via space race.

My score SUCKED.