Diplomatic Relations
- Thread starter Whomp
- Start date
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Right, that "greed is good" motto could create so so-vibesMistfit said:
Edit: FYI Kentharu was born 14 sep -89. We should congrt him on his 16th bday. He seems to heavily involved in the never ending story-thing which I don't get at all
. Anyway, somewhat of a distracted character by the looks of his posting:Don't know why he's/she's been elected to negotiate but seems to enjoy making up stories/roleplaying.
S'right.
MSN address: djoc51@msn.com
Interesting times, gentlemen.
I think it was Mr Franklin who once said "If we don't hang together we will all hang separately". In that spirit I propose granting the negotiating team the power to determine terms but that the Senate and People of KISS still consent to, but not advise on, whatever has been negotiated. If that means posting a poll, so be it.
MSN address: djoc51@msn.com
Interesting times, gentlemen.
I think it was Mr Franklin who once said "If we don't hang together we will all hang separately". In that spirit I propose granting the negotiating team the power to determine terms but that the Senate and People of KISS still consent to, but not advise on, whatever has been negotiated. If that means posting a poll, so be it.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Some thoughts:
If we sign a peace/research-deal with greece lasting throughout the AA, knowing they will want to whack us sooner or later, question is "how do we ditch them without getting the remaining teams on our backs?" When they notice we are hi-jacking our continent, they (iros and persians) will be anxious to stop us. Here the bad blood btw nuts and tnt may come in handy.
Hopefully a fight btween them will break out in AA. If not, so be it. Before attacking greece, backstabbing them, we can notice D'nuts and agree upon
TNT as soon as we're "ready" with MIA. We will also propose dnut's "let's have one continent each" and do a space race". That to avoid them being too anxious about us going for a dom win. We will by then be in a position to win either way even if do let them have "their" continent (for a while). TNT will make an issue of our deal breaking with Greece, but I don't think D'nuts will have anything to do with them.
Lots of speculation, lots of fun!
If we sign a peace/research-deal with greece lasting throughout the AA, knowing they will want to whack us sooner or later, question is "how do we ditch them without getting the remaining teams on our backs?" When they notice we are hi-jacking our continent, they (iros and persians) will be anxious to stop us. Here the bad blood btw nuts and tnt may come in handy.
Hopefully a fight btween them will break out in AA. If not, so be it. Before attacking greece, backstabbing them, we can notice D'nuts and agree upon
TNT as soon as we're "ready" with MIA. We will also propose dnut's "let's have one continent each" and do a space race". That to avoid them being too anxious about us going for a dom win. We will by then be in a position to win either way even if do let them have "their" continent (for a while). TNT will make an issue of our deal breaking with Greece, but I don't think D'nuts will have anything to do with them.Lots of speculation, lots of fun!
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I agree that this might be the best scenario barring all other teams quitting now 
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
There are some pros and cons to a long term peace deal. I guess we need to go on the assumption that they are far enough away from us that we couldn't effectively execute even a limited war with Greece. If we go on that assumption, a peace treaty to last the AA is OK.
There are a lot of factors to consider in a research deal. Who does what, at what rate, which techs are traded for what. I have to say it is a bit foreign to me.
There are a lot of factors to consider in a research deal. Who does what, at what rate, which techs are traded for what. I have to say it is a bit foreign to me.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
The way I see it, we will prepare for (and initiate) 3 major battles. The first with MIA in late AA to clear continent, the second joining D'nuts in whacking TNT and the third being a last man standing with the Nutters. There will be plenty of bloodshed if things work outSir Bugsy said:
.Edit: I guess that's the time when we quote Elvis Costello: "Doomsday (the bugs are taking over)"
Edit2:
I'm thinking we should participate in this role palying if he likes it. That will put him in a good mood. Being too "dry" might put him off and we want him smiling, talkative and generous, right?Myself about MIA's negotiator said:
I realize quoting a previous post by myself in the edit of the last post in thread is a sign saying "Could you please cool it"
Kickbooti
Ecclesia Militans
I don't konw that a battle between the continents is a foregone conclusion.
The way I see it, we are a bigger threat to the Greeks than they are to us, but they are a bigger benefit to us than we are to them.
The defense is going to be stout in the AA, so a long war is a diversion of resources away from expansion/infestructure.
Also, our Religous/Agricultural traits can't help them (aside from trading pottery, for which I think we should extract a hefty price), but their Science/Commercial could be an ongoing benefit to us in tech and gold.
I think the Iroqouis might want help against the Provo/Persians's Immortal. A threeway alliance earlier rather than later, and a race to divide up the second continent between us and the Greeks may come about.
In that race I think we win becuase of our Agriculture. Throw up some cheap Temples and our culture will start grabbing territory.
Just thinking about the future...
The way I see it, we are a bigger threat to the Greeks than they are to us, but they are a bigger benefit to us than we are to them.
The defense is going to be stout in the AA, so a long war is a diversion of resources away from expansion/infestructure.
Also, our Religous/Agricultural traits can't help them (aside from trading pottery, for which I think we should extract a hefty price), but their Science/Commercial could be an ongoing benefit to us in tech and gold.
I think the Iroqouis might want help against the Provo/Persians's Immortal. A threeway alliance earlier rather than later, and a race to divide up the second continent between us and the Greeks may come about.
In that race I think we win becuase of our Agriculture. Throw up some cheap Temples and our culture will start grabbing territory.
Just thinking about the future...
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
If we help d'nuts kill off TNT, they'll have the upper hand with a whole continent to themselves
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Does anyone think it possible that TNT is planning to play a sort of AW Defiant game? The attitude coming from them makes that sound like a possibility. What effect, if any, would that have on our diplomacy?
Maybe we (KISS & MIA) could work out something where we'd help D'Nuts dogpile TNT in exchange for toeholds on the other continent. That would seem to help out D'Nuts without giving them too large an advantage in having the continent to themselves.
Maybe we (KISS & MIA) could work out something where we'd help D'Nuts dogpile TNT in exchange for toeholds on the other continent. That would seem to help out D'Nuts without giving them too large an advantage in having the continent to themselves.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
That's why I think we should finish MIA first, then help Nuts with Presia.Tubby Rower said:
I will play devil's advocate here. My .02 on why a long-term arrangement with MIA works.
--My assumption is we will control 60% of our continent. If we split 50% of the other continent we now are at 55% to the dom limit.
--The obvious which is shared resources and luxs that once hooked up by roads will be difficult to disconnect. This may not be the case till late MA with the other continent.
--More importantly, we don't have to watch every coastal approach to our island. Much more difficult to defend 60% of an island than 100%. They protect theirs, we protect ours.
--Joint military operations. They can attack from one end and we attack from the other.
--The obvious shared tech research and they get cheap libs and unis. They get free techs in the new age.
--The continent will be fully developed with their help by the time the other continent has been taken.
--No fast units. They may not be able to take cities on the other continent as quickly as us.
--War settlers. There is, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, no question our early settler factory will pay enormous dividends. While other teams are cranking out of their capital, we have already moved settler production to city 5 or 6. No one can crank war settlers like us. If they do it's at the expense of military. Not the case for us.
--Striking a deal to eliminate TNT will not be difficult. Enough said.
--The largest threat in this game is Doughnut. Good players, great traits and UU. They need to be handled before a civ whose best unit is defensive.
My thoughts are to agree once the other continent is finished then we can go mano a mano.
--My assumption is we will control 60% of our continent. If we split 50% of the other continent we now are at 55% to the dom limit.
--The obvious which is shared resources and luxs that once hooked up by roads will be difficult to disconnect. This may not be the case till late MA with the other continent.
--More importantly, we don't have to watch every coastal approach to our island. Much more difficult to defend 60% of an island than 100%. They protect theirs, we protect ours.
--Joint military operations. They can attack from one end and we attack from the other.
--The obvious shared tech research and they get cheap libs and unis. They get free techs in the new age.
--The continent will be fully developed with their help by the time the other continent has been taken.
--No fast units. They may not be able to take cities on the other continent as quickly as us.
--War settlers. There is, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, no question our early settler factory will pay enormous dividends. While other teams are cranking out of their capital, we have already moved settler production to city 5 or 6. No one can crank war settlers like us. If they do it's at the expense of military. Not the case for us.
--Striking a deal to eliminate TNT will not be difficult. Enough said.
--The largest threat in this game is Doughnut. Good players, great traits and UU. They need to be handled before a civ whose best unit is defensive.
My thoughts are to agree once the other continent is finished then we can go mano a mano.
Pentium
Digital Matter
We should definately make an agreement with MIA. They're scientific, so we could have a pet civ. 
But, shouldn't we try to dogpile D'nuts? They might be the strongest team, but they can't hold 3 fronts.
. TNT follows next, and we're on our way to Domination.
But, shouldn't we try to dogpile D'nuts? They might be the strongest team, but they can't hold 3 fronts.
. TNT follows next, and we're on our way to Domination.My message to MIA...
Ambassador Kentharu,
Our people have been given one day of rest tomorrow, a holiday, for their great labor. Many of our tenacious people will be back to work mining and irrigating Tuesday. If we are unable to schedule an IM meeting by that time, it could make it more difficult to coordinate a time for our people to converse.
If the concern is how we met -we will gladly explain how at this meeting.
Please respond to our request at your earliest conveniece.
Yours in gratitude,
Major Idiot Whomp of K.I.S.S.
Ambassador Kentharu,
Our people have been given one day of rest tomorrow, a holiday, for their great labor. Many of our tenacious people will be back to work mining and irrigating Tuesday. If we are unable to schedule an IM meeting by that time, it could make it more difficult to coordinate a time for our people to converse.
If the concern is how we met -we will gladly explain how at this meeting.
Please respond to our request at your earliest conveniece.
Yours in gratitude,
Major Idiot Whomp of K.I.S.S.
Pentium
Digital Matter
Poor our people, they only have one day off in the whole 6050 years
Whomp's analysis is sound. Our traits and the Greek traits are complementary. They have a strong AA to mid MA UU as do we, but theirs is defensive while ours is offensive and fast moving. The other two nations (Persia and Iro) also have complementary traits. The most natural thing in the world is for the two on each continent to combine to control the other continent.
Here is where it gets interesting though, as the Shahanshah has succeeded in already alienating his natural ally. That provides an opening for us and the Greeks to exploit.
So now the question becomes what can we do to channel the antipathy towards the Persians?
Here is where it gets interesting though, as the Shahanshah has succeeded in already alienating his natural ally. That provides an opening for us and the Greeks to exploit.
So now the question becomes what can we do to channel the antipathy towards the Persians?
Daghdha
Absent Minded
A little cautious word on the bickering btw TNT and D'nuts. Dave and Provo are playing demo together elsewhere. I do think they're a bit pi55ed at each other, but facing the fact that they share the same continent could drive them to kiss and make up and we all know how strong feelings of unity can rise out of an ended fight. We should not rely 100% on them to not cooperate but follow a path that would stand that possibility. I think Whompsies analys is sound but a war btw TNT and Nuts are of most importance and not wholly under our control. The other proposed option, to eliminate MIA before going after TNT-->Nuts would also benefit from this assumed animosity on other continent but may not be all that relying on it, not sure here 
. Could we have an estimated time schedule for Whomp's scenario? Would our UU come into play when effective? Do we care about the triggering of our GA?
Either way a long term peace deal with MIA is prefered. Nice PM Whomps
.
Btw, Nuts are late with sending save. Waiing for the SANTIONS-cry .
. Could we have an estimated time schedule for Whomp's scenario? Would our UU come into play when effective? Do we care about the triggering of our GA?Either way a long term peace deal with MIA is prefered. Nice PM Whomps
.Btw, Nuts are late with sending save. Waiing for the SANTIONS-cry
.
Kickbooti
Ecclesia Militans
Daghdha said:Waiing for the SANTIONS-cry
Always eager to please...
SANTIONS!
SANTIONS!! ![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
And Whomp beat me to the punch (I love finding something everything thinks is brilliant and say "I was thinking the same thing...").
I think that if the pleasant tone holds, it is a better use of resources to make nice with a complimentary Greek and foment mischief on the other continent.
We would have to be careful of leaving D'nuts all alone on their land mass. I would plan on filling boats with nice settlers to plant vacation communities on sunny/senic/rugged/exciting Continent X.
Can we re-name GS to 'Travel Agents'?
soul_warrior
Termite!
i think what we'll get in return is:Kickbooti said:Can we re-name GS to 'Travel Agents'?
SANTIONS!
SANTIONS!! so... why not? as long as each gets a certified licence number....
