Diplomats and Spies - im on a steep learning curve here

[thx1138]

One of the things i used to neglect was dip/spies.

I am reading a lot of posts about how important they are.

HOW exactly are they best used? Dips can only be used once, is that correct?

What effect does poisoning a water supply have?

Can a spie, investigate multiple cities in one turn?

Why cant my TROOPS bribe enemies?

How do i make my TROOPS bribe proof/resistant?

can one dip bribe anonther dip?

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Nil Mortis Sine Lucre

 

[Andu Indorin]

Originally posted by thx1138:
HOW exactly are they best used? Dips can only be used once, is that correct?

Dips can only be used once against a city and/or sabotaging opposing units; they can bribe units forever; this means that dips are often best used in bribing Barbarian units to obtain NON-supported units that can be upgrade to Riflemen/Cavalry with Leonardo's Workshop.

What effect does poisoning a water supply have?

The opposing city loses on population point per attempt; this tends to be ineffective with diplomats (since they are lost) but with multiple spies, you can devastate a city at your pleasure; and if you are in a non-communist government type, it is one way to make them veteran spies.

Can a spie, investigate multiple cities in one turn?

Yes; the cost to investigate is 1/3 of MP, so they can investigate up to nine cities connected by open railways.

Why cant my TROOPS bribe enemies?

Because, apparently, the AI cheats. (Personally, I've never seen it happen in any of my games)

How do i make my TROOPS bribe proof/resistant?

As a democracy, you're troops and cities are immune to bribery; otherwise, stacking units makes them immune to bribery.

can one dip bribe anonther dip?

Yes.

[/B]

In general, Dips and Spies are extremely useful for bribing and stealing techs; spies are especially good for reconnaissance. And for some reason, I find that dips make good early explorers because they "seem" to provoke Barbarian responses from huts less often than other units (though I cannot think of any reason why this should be); and
even if they do provoke barbarians, with proper support, you can bribe a couple and destroy the rest.

 

[drake]

A vet spy single handedly won a huge MP game for me. Probably the most glorious moment in my civ history.......give props to the spies!

I think Andu failed to mention that the nuclear capibility of spies is very very important as well.......other then that he answered very well.

[This message has been edited by drake (edited June 01, 2001).]

 

[Alan_Nicoll]

If you want more information and advice, visit my web site at http://www.angelfire.com/art/megathink/civ. Click on "How I Play." Then go to Tech Topics (click on it in the Table of Contents) and scroll down to the section titled Spy Power.

 

[Kefka]

Originally posted by Andu Indorin:
In general, Dips and Spies are extremely useful for bribing and stealing techs; spies are especially good for reconnaissance. And for some reason, I find that dips make good early explorers because they "seem" to provoke Barbarian responses from huts less often than other units (though I cannot think of any reason why this should be); and
even if they do provoke barbarians, with proper support, you can bribe a couple and destroy the rest.

I think it would make sense if the Dips dont provoke Barbarians as much!
Think about it if you were living in a little village and some armed troops that ya never seen before come walking in you might be tempted ta arm yourself and defend your village!
but if some very Carismatic proper unarmed guy came in to your village would your first reaction be to Kill them?

I would hope not!


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Why Create things when you know they must be destroyed!
I will Create A monument to nothingness!

 

[Andu Indorin]

Kefka,

I more or less agree. It's just that I can't see programming that variable into the game and then not tell the players about ... Perhaps one of these days I'll conduct a series of controlled tests to see whether or not its an accident or a part of the programming (i.e., whether unit type effects hut "outcome").

 

[Kefka]

I dont think that was programed in to the game either but I was trying to come up with some kind of theory for what you seem to observe! Me I dont wander my Dips around unprotected because I belive that there to Important to lose to barbarians so I cant say if its true or not.

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Why Create things when you know they must be destroyed!
I will Create A monument to nothingness!

 

[Mongol Horde]

I'll add one little thing. Check the government types of your enemies if you are looking at fundy or despot governments then it is gonna be real cheap and painless ti incite revolts in the enemy cities plus.

 

[goodbye_mr_bond]

Adding to Mongol's post: While doing that you should also check how much cash they have. The richer they are, the more expensive the cities are to bribe. Also if their capital (palace) is gone, the other cities are much cheaper. So it's a good strategy to go straight for their capital with military units, take it over, and then send out the spies to bribe the rest cheaply.

Conversely, the more cash you have, the more expensive (and thus unlikely) it is for the AI to bribe your cities/units. I find that 2000-plus gold reserves in Fundy is usually enough.

 

[drake]

guess no one else finds the nuclear capibility of spies very useful

 

[hannibol]

at the later stages of a game the nuclear capability of spies is unstoppable. I don't know what is the best way to defend against it but if you send out a barrage of spies to nuke a city they will likely be successful. (At least in my experience) If anyone knows how you defend this I would be interested although it is a favorite tactic if I can't raise an army or to retaliate.

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:tank:

"Hannibol Ad Portas"

 

[drake]

You should start by making sure all your railroads and roads leading to major cities are well defended. Still, even then, the spies mobility is often un-stoppable

I think that putting spies in your cities lowers the chance of another spy being able to do damage as well.

 

[stormerne]

Originally posted by drake:
I think that putting spies in your cities lowers the chance of another spy being able to do damage as well.

Very true. Even better if you have more than one stationed in your city. The exact statistics are these:

<u>Diplomats</u>
1 in city has 20% chance of intercepting enemy agent.
2 in city has 36% chance of intercepting enemy agent.
3 in city has 49% chance of intercepting enemy agent.

<u>Spies</u>
1 in city has 40% chance of intercepting enemy agent.
2 in city has 64% chance of intercepting enemy agent.
3 in city has 78% chance of intercepting enemy agent.

<u>Veteran Spies</u>
1 in city has 60% chance of intercepting enemy agent.
2 in city has 84% chance of intercepting enemy agent.
3 in city has 94% chance of intercepting enemy agent.



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<IMG SRC="http://www.anglo-saxon.demon.co.uk/stormerne/stormerne.gif" border=0>

 

[Kefka]

Is it possible to get a veteran Diplomat?
what if they hold off an atack from an enemy might that work?
and if they can become veterans what is the exact statistics?

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<IMG SRC="http://www.grworld.com/vanillacubesgames/files/kefka.gif" border=0>"Why Create things when you know they must be destroyed!"
"I will Create A monument to nothingness!"

[This message has been edited by Kefka (edited June 04, 2001).]

 

[duke o' york]

When you incite a revolt, what happens to the cash? It should just disappear, having been spent by the rebellious citizenry, not be added onto the original civilization's total. Why should they get the money if they don't have the city any more? It would be daft if you paid so much money for a city, and then took over the city just to have all the cash you'd just paid returned to you as a reward for taking the city. The money should definitely just go. Maybe this is what already happens, as I've never bothered to check whether the opposition's funds went up. Can anyone advise?

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in vino veritas

 

[Alan_Nicoll]

Drake sez:

I think that putting spies in your cities lowers the chance of another spy being able to do damage as well.

Spies or dips can prevent only theft of tech, not other damage.

 

[drake]

are you sure about that alan?

I thought having spies also helped prevent other spies from sabotage as well......

In any case, I don't usually use this method most of the time anyway...spies have better uses then defense

 

[Magnus]

Sometimes I play the 'lazy merchant's game' where I am almost exclusively building only diplomats and trade routes. so, instead of building military units, I use the excess money to buy whatever military units come too close to my cities for garrison duty. Its kinda like a press gang of diplomats...

 

[Andu Indorin]

Originally posted by Kefka:
Is it possible to get a veteran Diplomat?
what if they hold off an atack from an enemy might that work?
and if they can become veterans what is the exact statistics?

Yes, but not be defending an attack -- since Dips have neither attack nor defense value, they always lose.

But communist government will produce Veteran Dips in the same way that they produce Veteran Spies; whether or not its worth the trouble of producing veteran dips when Spies can't be that far off in terms of research is open to debate.