Director of Infrastructure

[tao]

As Governor of Audiac I had given the following input for the 50BC turnschat:

"standing wishes"
1. if it is at all possible, please mm cities to coincide building of settlers/workers with pop growth
2. once a tile is improved, if possible please mm city in order use improved tile

strong recommendation
3. if we revolt, please mm all cities for max growth (shields and commerce are lost in anarchy) while not revolting
4. once we are republic mm all cities again

The first was well done, 2 regrettably not, 3. and 4 did not yet apply.

Questions:
What is the proper way and place to formulate such wishes?
Are they "just wishes" or is there a way to have them (usually) executed?
Can we agree on such a list?
Or can the governors create individual lists for each province?
Or is this impossible and has to be specified for each turnchat for each province for each city?

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
RM ?

I saw you are naming Dutch Military Great Leaders after me, but don't start naming bonus grassland after me

I didn't even think of that until you told me!

 

[zorven]

Originally posted by tao
As Governor of Audiac I had given the following input for the 50BC turnschat:

"standing wishes"
1. if it is at all possible, please mm cities to coincide building of settlers/workers with pop growth
2. once a tile is improved, if possible please mm city in order use improved tile

The first was well done, 2 regrettably not

Perhaps I have mis-understood you. I thought that you wanted to make sure that each laborer is using an improved tile. You seem to be saying that you want specific tiles worked. Which is true? If the latter, you should be specific as to which tiles you want worked for each city.

And the proper place for laborer (micro-managing) requests is in the turn chat instruction thread.

 

[Chieftess]

Since the war is just about over, continue building a road between MRN (Mr. Roger's Neighborhood) and Acheron with the captured workers. Also, connecting these two cities should be priority. Don't worry about working the tiles, or clearing the jungle, since these cities are pretty much corrupt right now. Once the Raven's Nest worker group is finished with the jungle to the SE, build a road to Cabaret. (on the hill, plains, and desert north of where the workers are now). Irragate the plains in Carabet's borders to give it some growth.

 

[zorven]

Chieftess,

I am starting to feel the worker plan is outdated. Do you have time to work with our citizenry to develop an updated plan?

 

[Chieftess]

yeah, I'll set up another discussion. Also, it's kind of hard for industrious workers to find things to do when you're so small.

 

[Chieftess]

"Forbidden Palace Preperation"

2 workers by St. Octaviansburg - After they are finished irragating, move 4 tiles north, and start building roads to the potential city site west of Cijam (1 west of the mountain), then continue to work the tiles around Ooligaria and Cijam.

2 Workers north of Mure - Have them build a road 1 NE, and then 1 N (on the bonus grassland) of their current posistion. They should then head to work on Groton.


Prepare these cities so that they are at, or near max efficiency when the FP comes online, and in this order.

Groton
Bootsville
Sanction
Montpellier
Ville de Buisson

Use the guideline I posted earlier in the thread.

For Ville de Buisson, do the following:

Mine the 3 grassland tiles in the future city radius.
Mine the 2 desert tiles within the city radius.
Do not chop down the cherry trees, err, forests.
Irragate the floodplains.

Ville de Buisson should use all of these 12 tiles. Don't let Grand Broc--er, Bricolage use Ville de Buisson's tiles, since it'll be further away from the FP. GB should be more of a coastal city (it needs a harbor).

Also, clear the 2 jungle tiles by Sanction, and the 2 jungle tiles around Groton (after the mining of the hills are complete)


Unless Santa Lucia and Huntington are getting Aqueducts, don't worry about chopping down anymore jungle. Do, however, chop down *non-dye* jungles around Acheron and Mr. Roger's. Mr. Roger's will need 12 tiles (it has a lake). Acheron can only use 6 for now.

If Chittagong were to somehow flip to us, build a road, and clear 2 jungle tiles.

With any left over workers, clear the jungle by Vo Mimbre to see if it is a bonus grassland tile. Also, clear the 3 jungle tiles in DR's territory to see if there's any bonus grassland tiles.


Cijam needs micromanagement. Move the laborer from the floodplains to the mined desert.

DR may need to be micromanaged after the temple is built. Place the taxman on a floodplain tile for growth in 3.

 

[Chieftess]

Just to sum up our progress:

[b]50BC[/b]

Population	820,000		4th
Land Area	18,200sq. mi.	6th
Mfg. Goods	30 megatons	5th
Productivity	95		6th

Top 10 Cities:

Vo Mimbre		4spt
Vandelay		4spt
St. Octaviansburg	3spt
Huntington		3spt
Montpellier		3spt
Groton			3spt
Deux Rivieres		3spt
Santa Lucia		2spt
New Falcon's Haven	1spt
Raven's Flight		1spt

[b]720AD[/b]

Population	5,324,000	2nd
Land Area	42,500sq. mi.	2nd
Mfg. Goods	169 megatons	1st [dance]
Productivity	572		2nd

Top 10 Cities:

Deux Rivieres		24spt
Groton			18spt
Vandelay		15spt
Bootsville		10spt
Montpellier		10spt
Santa Lucia		9spt
Ooligaria		8spt
Cijam			8spt
Vo Mimbre		8spt
New Falcon's Haven	7spt

 

[Chieftess]

Here is the final worker plan.

Plan 1 - "Core Military" 

City			Goal	Knight Build	Current Size	Comment
Deux Rivieres		26spt	3 turns		12
Groton			24spt	3 turns		7		Focus on max Growth

Bootsville		22spt+	4+ turns	6		Needs a culture push for an extra 2 shields

Montpellier		20spt	4 turns		7
Ville de Buisson	~18spt	4 turns		2		May need a courthouse for max production
Sanction		~18spt	4 turns		5		May need a courthouse for max production
Santa Lucia		>18spt	4+ turns	6		Needs an aquaduct!
Cijam			~19spt	4 turns		8		Needs a courthouse and temple!
St. Octaviansburg	~20spt	4 turns		5

[b][size=4]Worker Factories[/b][/size]

Liebling
Grand Bricolage
Anarchyisgodville
Internal
Buto
Pithom
Carabet Voltaire (possible)

Further Notes:

Forbidden Palace Cities

Deux Rivieres - Aside from the needed micromanagement, this city is set!

Vandelay - A courthouse after the cathedral, and this will be set! While we can use the mountain, the desert will give us a quicker, and more immediate benefit when the city grows. If we need the extra shield, then mine the mountain in the south.

Santa Lucia - This is the one city that needs intensive care on the Palace Ring side. Workers should first concentrate on clearing the jungle, and then roads and mines. Only forest when the city reaches, or nears size 12.

Cijam - This one still needs a temple and courthouse to be very productive.

Huntington - Our primary Galley city. Hopefully, there's bonus grassland under the jungle to bring it over 15spt (there's bound to be corruption). It doesn't matter how fast this city builds galleys. 2-3 turns per galley, I'm happy. As long as we have atleast 10 (can carry 30 units once they're upgraded to caravels).

St. Octaviansburg - This city is prety much done, except for some mining and a road.

New Falcon's Haven - This city can only max out to 10spt, with corruption. This should be a worker factory.

Ooligaira - This city needs an aqueduct to grow, but, it will stall at size 9 with a total of 12spt.

Internal - This is another "Breadbasket City" that'll be a worker factory. It's in the middle of a desert, so there's not much that can be done about it. It will be relegated to a size 3-worker factory, but a good one at that. It should use a granary.

Vo Mibre - Can only max out to size 10.

Vandopolis - This can be very productive, but we need to clear a lot of jungle.

Carabet Voltaire - This town is set! It can't grow past size 6, so it can't use an aqueduct. Can be a catapult or galley city. It doesn't need a temple, and other improvements.

Buto - A future city that we will capture. Not much to say about it yet, as it'll need a lot of development.

Pithom - Another future city. Most likely a worker factory.


Forbidden Palace Cities

Groton - Focus on food until the city is nearly size 12. This will require constant micromanagement to get max production without wasting food.

Bootsville - This needs a culture push (Recommended: switch and rush the library). This might be able to give Bootsville the extra tile that Zarquim is holding, giving it 24spt total (enough for a 3 turn knight build instead of 4). This city is a Culture Battle Zone

Montepellier - Build roads on the forest last. Also, Irragate the wines, since it's going to use a mined plains. There is also a tile to be irragated west of the city, however, no one will use this tile. This is so that Liebling can be irragated.

Ville de Buisson - This is gonna be our productive little Hamlet. The worker that is building the road should irragate the floodplain 1 tile north the next turn, then irragate/road the next floodplain. VdB will stay on the irragated floodplains and grassland tiles until size 7, in which it will start using the forests. It would be best to wait for the city to grow to size 12 before foresting. This can be achieved by building workers onto the city. There may or may not be a need for a courthouse (depending on the amount of corruption). 18 spt is the base limit for a knight every 4 turns.

Sanction - Like VdB, it's a productive little city that hinges on 1 corrupt shield. In both of these cities, we can disband some of our warriors (while filling those cities with pikes), or rush the knight to not waste shields.

Anarchy - This city is going to be a worker factory. It needs a granary, and produce only workers. to build onto surrounding cities.

Liebling - This will be rather cramped, but should build a granary, and have the forests chopped in the process. This will become a worker factory.




Worker Factories

Liebling
Grand Bricolage
Anarchyisgodville
Internal
Buto
Pithom
Carabet Voltaire (possible)

 

[Chieftess]

Here's the city plan (huge image):

 

[tao]

May I ask you to reconsider the above list. I looked at it and I suppose that Ooligaria and New Falcon's Heaven can do better than you project. A closer looked confirmed me in my suspicion. Thus I stopped checking the other cities.

I also believe that we have no urgent need for 6-7 so-called worker factories. Our industrious workers are fast, but not optimally managed. IMHO it would be enough be build some more whenever a city reaches the limit 6 or 12 and can finish an additional worker in 1-2 turns.

Low production cities should build e.g. catapults or galleys. But since we are commercial, all our current cities except Finklewink and Almaren are sort of productive if managed properly and even more once we trigger wltkd by trading for overseas luxuries. Thus growth to at least size 6 should get priority.

I will post a more detailed turnchat criticism with build recommendations once the turnchat summary is posted.

 

[Chieftess]

The worker factories aren't for working tiles. They're for building into cities to get them up to size 12. I also know that a few cities could do better, but what I was really aiming for was the core cities for knight production.

 

[Chieftess]

This thread is going to be the continuation of last term. It's not an official elected thread, so I don't think it needs its' own thread. At any rate, I'd like the president to look at the above graphic. The colored boxes are the tiles that the repsected city must use. Please focus on our 9 core cities, and save Santa Lucia for last, since we'll need all available workers.

 

[tao]

Chieftess: My use of terrain improvements and of workers seems to be fundamentally different than yours. At least it would be very different from the way we did it in the last two terms.

• I irrigate more grasland to grow faster.
• I especially try to reach pop 6 and then trigger wltkd in remote cities to overcome corruption. Prime examples: Mure, Acherin, Mr. Roger's.
• I consider pop size and don't improve terrain (e.g. clear jungle) that will not be worked for a long long time. Prime examples: Huntington, Groton, Sanction, Mr. Roger's.
• I plan ahead on culture expansion and improve terrain which will be accessible soon, e.g. Sanction.
• I devise worker plans minimizing wasteful worker movements. Prime example: ignored wish for plain irrigation at New Falcon's Heaven, hill mining near St. O.
• With industrial workers, I never ever build huge worker gangs, because ithis neglects many other important tasks. Prime examples: near Montpellier or Internal.
• When there are improvable tiles available, I improve them before clearing jungle, e.g. Mr. Rogers.[/list=a] Not all of these points are controled by you, many depend on the DP.
  
  Since there is still no clear rule on how the DP acts on worker terms, my opinion may get ignored. As in the past, I will point out some of the (IMO) mistakes made in my turnchat criticisms.

• 
  
  PS: I consider it very very bad to post graphics as wide as you did, because it significantly reduces readability of the tread.

 

[tao]

Some more comments:

1. You completely ignore the option to plant forest. This gives +2 shields on grasland (e.g. Deux Riviere!) instead of +1 a mine adds.
2. You do not have the most meaningful terrain improvement for Mure listed: mining the iron mountain.
3. I completely fail to understand why you mark all plains at Anarchyisgodville as "irrigate". The sensible way is to mine some and achieve a balance with wltkd at pop 6.
4. As of the last turnchat (720ad) your map is outdated: by culture expansion, we have new tiles toi work.
   [/list=1]

 

[Chieftess]

I never ignored the option to plant forest. You'll see that where-ever I put "F", that means, "Forest".

 

[tao]

I'm very sorry that the DoI plan once again caused harm in the last turnchat.

Chieftess: you seem to prefer mining grasland. This is far from being always optimal.

Just look at our cities Huntington and St.Octaviansburg. Both are close to the capital and thus very low on corruption. They should be among the top cities of Fanatica. To achieve this, they first and foremost must grow to size 12. Both are now size 7 and will only grow in 15/17 turns. That is very bad.

Therefore in the turnchat instructions I explicitely asked to irrigate the cleared jungle of St.O. to get 3 food. In this case we even have 2 currently unworked mined hills to give us shields, once we are done with growth!

I see the fundamental disagreement between you and me as follows:

Chieftess once made a plan saying for (nearly) each tile, how it should be improved. This might be correct once we work all tiles. In the meantime, we perform "poorly".

tao looks at the current need of the cities. He is e.g. willing to irrigate now (fast growth) and use the industrious workers to change irrigation to mines once the growth is over.

Chieftess' instructions are fine -- if the governors don't care or know -- to help the DP in easy decisions.

tao's instructions are best for Fanatica.

tao's position: Use Chieftess' instructions unless a knowing governor orders otherwise.

chieftess position: <please specify>

 

[ravensfire]

My position: Governor's (and the DoI) post requests - the President (and by extension, the DP) determines if they should act upon those requests or not, and the order they perform the actions.

-- Ravensfire

 

[gert-janl]

I noticed that in the last turnchat a large group of workers was moved out of Alluares to work somewhere else in our beloved country. Although I understand completely that workers are needed throughout entire Fanatica, I would like to stress the production potential of the Alluares' Cities.
Located very close to our capital, Vandopolis, but Mr. Roger's Neiberhood as well, can become a large production core.

But we have to clear out the jungle first. I would like to see that extra workers will be send to Alluares, to improve the surrounding area of Vandopolis quickly, so that Vandopolis will have the room to grow, just like the, once isolated, city of Huntington.

Although I don't prefer that option, we could, of course, always try to build a few more workers, maybe even in Alluares. The negative side-effect however is that city growth and production are slowed significantly. Please post, or PM, a more detailed plan of worker actions in the Alluares province and if more workers are needed to deal with the jungle quickly and effectively.

 

[tao]

I agree.

Mure has much more improved tiles, than it can work for centuries.
1 worker should stay, 3 move where they are needed.

Sanction does not need 5 workers; 3 is plenty.

Bootsville is completely improved. It does not need 3 workers. (And forest planting is folly, because it kills growth.)

Working forest in Ville de Buisson turns it into a 2 turn settler factory.