Discussing some of the new leaders

[bonafide11]

Yes, yes, of course, all Civs have different playing styles and different strategies that they are best at, but I want to know if it is true that gunpowder units can promote down the Drill line! That's the first I have seen that and I have been looking elsewhere for confirmation but I haven't been able to find anything...

 

[Phoenix1595]

Sumerian
Leader: Gilgamesh - Creative, Protective
Starting Techs: Wheel, Agriculture
Unique Unit: Vulture (Axeman), has +1 strength but suffers a 25% reduction against melee units.
Unique Building: Ziggurat (Courthouse), 20 hammers cheaper than the courthouse, only four are required to build the Forbidden Palace.

OMG!!! Improved axes (vs archers) AND cheaper courthouses/FP??? Plus creative for ideal 1st city placement to claim copper. Plus starting with ag-wheel which is my personal favourite. This guy's gonna rock.

I agree with you there, futurehermit. I think the Sumerians are underestimated by some of the posters on the board (it still ranks as the least fav new civ on my poll). I'm still up in the air about whether both Sumerians and Babylonians should have been included at the expense of a non-ME civ, but I digress.

What are your thoughts on the Byzantines? Once I learned of Justianian beating out Civ3's Theodora and the replacement of the dromon with the more relevant cataphract, they rose in my book.

 

[Thedrin]

Bonafide11:
Yes, yes, of course, all Civs have different playing styles and different strategies that they are best at, but I want to know if it is true that gunpowder units can promote down the Drill line! That's the first I have seen that and I have been looking elsewhere for confirmation but I haven't been able to find anything...

A video clip of a paratrooper recieving a drill promotion. I posted skeptically at first (since I didn't and haven't) watched the clip but it was confirmed by others.

Phoenix1595:
I agree with you there, futurehermit. I think the Sumerians are underestimated by some of the posters on the board (it still ranks as the least fav new civ on my poll).

Gilgamesh has a great pair of traits and starting technologies. It's a solid unique unit too. But the unique building really puts one off. Yes, it can be rushed in a size 6 city after only a few turns of being built but it doesn't really compare to the HRE's, the Zulu's, or the Aztec's unique building.

 

[Piko]

I have to say the Khmer do look interesting to me, one of the first to take my eye. Elephants have always been a powerful military unit, and they maintain effectiveness against cavalry with their natural abilities against mounted units, and with this bonus they will provide a cheap effective fighting force to make glue out of any of those often painful mounted invasions i.e. pesky persians hehe. And mixed with catapults early = Great offense and defense covered.

Then there is expansive and UB = highest population on the planet, especially coupled with the pyramids for representation and you have a great economy to boot! also with creative for land grabbing.

You just have to survive those early rushes and hunting and mining as techs stear you in the right direction to create your own = )

Edit: maybe its my old love for the indians in civ 3 with a large populace and rampaging elephants?

 

[futurehermit]

The Byzantines look kinda boring to me tbh...

I agree with you there, futurehermit. I think the Sumerians are underestimated by some of the posters on the board (it still ranks as the least fav new civ on my poll). I'm still up in the air about whether both Sumerians and Babylonians should have been included at the expense of a non-ME civ, but I digress.

What are your thoughts on the Byzantines? Once I learned of Justianian beating out Civ3's Theodora and the replacement of the dromon with the more relevant cataphract, they rose in my book.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I'll do my token bashing of the Byzantines and the HRE in here. They have good UBs, and nothing else. Both of them are saddled with the appalingly bad Imperialistic trait, the HRE has a second bad trait, and the Byzantines have a second trait that doesn't mix well with imperialistic at all. The Landsknecht blows at everything but giving the HRE a great defense for a very short time (after engineering, before gunpowder.) The Cataphract's an alright upgrade over the generic knight, but I don't like knights enough to consider that a big compliment. Human players and AI ones alike are smart enough to stuff a couple pikemen in all their stacks to ruin their usefulness.

God damnit. Why couldn't the Rathaus and the Hippodrame be given to someone who doesn't suck?

 

[bonafide11]

I wonder how many people who whine about the Imperialist trait have actually ever played it and gone to war the entire game. That's where it shines. I think it's the most underrated trait in the game.

With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if Firaxis upgrades it. Perhaps double production of Great Generals AND Great Spies??? Wow I hope so... Imperialist or Protective will probably get that, in my opinion...

 

[futurehermit]

I always war all game long and still think imperialistic blows

Why? Well, the one bonus of cheaper settlers is negated if you only build 1-2 of them Furthermore, great generals are good but are not amazing tbh. When there's good synergy (e.g., cyrus or julius) then it is a nice trait to have. Otherwise, it's kinda "meh"

I was thinking the cataphract could be deadly, especially on pangaea maps, but tbh that's the only thing that civ has going for it on paper.

 

[Thedrin]

Bonafide11:
With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if Firaxis upgrades it. Perhaps double production of Great Generals AND Great Spies??? Wow I hope so...

With the more recently released details about how espionage will work it seems very likely that philosophical civs will get the bonus (without actually earning much more great people points)..

 

[bonafide11]

You think Great Spies will work like regular Great People? I really hope not... If that's true, why wouldn't they have any World Wonders that produce Great People points?? I assumed once you generated so many total Espionage Points, you'd get a Great Spy...

 

[Piko]

You think Great Spies will work like regular Great People? I really hope not... If that's true, why wouldn't they have any World Wonders that produce Great People points?? I assumed once you generated so many total Espionage Points, you'd get a Great Spy...

You are correct bonafide, espionage points are seperate, like great general points. However you can use a espionage slider aswell, well i guess this is part of economy, sacrafice gold or science for espionage. There is improved economy in the game with corporations etc to balance this cost.

 

[Thedrin]

Piko:
You are correct bonafide, espionage points are seperate, like great general points. However you can use a espionage slider aswell, well i guess this is part of economy, sacrafice gold or science for espionage. There is improved economy in the game with corporations etc to balance this cost.

Are you certain that espionage points are linked to great spy points? I don't remember seeing that anywhere and I would have assumed they were seperate entities.

 

[Piko]

silly thing, oooh ok you have a point there, but yer, there arent enough ways to get great spy points? so i assume you research one? else you would get them too rarely, if at all?

Edit: perhaps completing spy missions gives you great spy points?

 

[futurehermit]

i read that great spies are just like great people, you can trigger golden ages, etc. with them. you can also run spy specialists is my understanding. so i assume they are like regular great people and NOT great generals.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yeah, the NDA'd info basically said that you've got spy specialists (like Engineer, Scientist, Priest, Artist, etc.) Specialists
which give Both Espionage AND Great Spy Points
and also all the 'Military' Wonders (Pentagon, West Point, etc.) seem to have been moved from Great Engineer points to Great Spy Points.