Discussion of HOF power plays

Originally posted by God
On huge maps I notice that people tend to go with 8 civs which is the HOF limit. I was wondering if it is easier to play with fewer civs?
I think Bamspeedy mostly covered this but I'd like to add a few thoughts:

With less Civs, the larger room for expansion means that it is easier to get established at the start. And I think that it also means that the maximum scoring potential is a little higher.

I'm not sure if less Civs is overall easier to win or not, I haven't played enough with less than the maximum Civs to know.

Playing with a lot of Civs you get some bonuses: Tech is cheaper while you are behind. With 16 Civs instead of 8, if everyone else knows a tech you can get it 1/16th cost instead of 1/8th. And there are more options for who goes to war with who, more chances to find a war happening somewhere in the world which you can capitalize on.
I find that somewhat near 10-12 Rivals on a Huge map fits me perfect. Although, I havn't played that many Huge maps.

In my latest game though, a Huge Map with the Zulu's, at Emperor difficulty. I used the combination of Horsemen+Impis. Because I was the only one starting "Below" the Jungle, I had to use many of my workers to build roads through the Jungle. Combined with some cities this didn't took that much time. But I took care of the French pretty much at the same time as these roads were built (that was located north of me, with the jungle between us). So the captured workers were used to build the roads from the other side of the Jungle.

This is actually the first game I actually succeded in demanding a city without being in war, even if the city didn't be of any help and flipped back pretty early. (Because of my late culture start on this map...)

When the French had been taken care of, my horsemen turned towards the Persians. I had since very early blocked their Iron. In version 1.21 it seems like they demand you to leave even with a scout quite often. But then I just walk back, and even if it took 4 turns to get back to the Iron, guess what, they havn't built a road yet...

Anyway, my blocking of resources also involves a Horse deep inside Japan, which also are among the weakest powers.

I placed my horsemen so that I could take 3 cities at the start of the war, and so I did. Then after taken these cities, I attacked a Longbowmen in the field with a lone Elite Horsmam, he won but couldn't be protected next turn. So what happens? He gets attacked and WINS! And what happens then? A leader appears! But then what? The horseman get attacked again... NO!!! the leader dies! Argh! Now it's my turn. I want revenge, I attack the longbowman that killed my Leader and Horsman with an elite Horsman, and what happens then?! You guessed right, I got a new leader!!!

Then the problem was what to do with it. I did some espionage and saw that the Germans (the most powerful after me) was about to finish the Sun Tzu in 3 turns! So I rushed it in an old french city, that actually flipped back some turns earlier, but that was the safest city I could get the Sun Tzu to before the Germans would build it.

One problem though... I didn't have Feodalism... And both Persia and France (1 city left) didn't speak with me! So I couln't demand the tech.
Then I checked the powergraph, and saw that India was quite weak and not close by, so I contacted them and bought Feodalism for whatever the cost.

Some turns later I bought Chivalry (or did I demand it, probably from France), and started upgraded my Horsemen to Knights.

As I only get 100gpt I can only upgrade 1.25 horseman per turn, I started to feel like I wanted the Leo's Workshop. So I left Persepolis alone and went for other cities surrounding it, and I also brought my Elite horsemen with my Knights, to milk me another leader.

I can't tell you anymore, because I havn't played anything more. Well, yes one more thing, this map looks fantastic score-wise, A lot of Jungle, and Grassland, Almost No Tundra, and only a spare amount of Plains, and even less desert.

The worst thing is that I started in that area, the area of the most Plains and Deserts. Well, it turned out fine, and I hope I can Win this game and not loose to Germans Culture (they are Cultural Devils in all my games...).

Well, happy HOFfing to you all!
I think that playing with the minimum number of AI is the most effective setting for scoring. There is a much longer expansion period where you can claim all those tiles needed for scoring, without having to fight for them. As an expansionist civ it means more huts for you. This helps get around the limitations of tech cost. There are fewer resources to control, and your Settlers are more likely to be able to grab them. Also there is almost a diplomatic immunity. You don't have to worry about reputation because alliances aren't that important later on.

There are some drawbacks of course, tech costs more to buy (and isn't as easy to demand), you have to plan on doing most of the terrain improvement yourself, and you have a huge micromanagement nightmare before the BC's are even over with. I had 138 cities by 10AD.
I guess fewer civs would be better score wise also because if you get a fast ancient UU such as Mounted Warrior or Jaguars then you could knock off some civs really early on.

In my current game 16 civs has helped me out because it limited the AI's expansion and I'm sure the AI would have had huge terrirtory on the other continent on my map.
@Aeson: I downloaded your game and checked out the dense build. It seemed to work, but I was wondering, if you only have about 3 workable squares per city how do you produce enough shields for knights and beyond?
All of my Knights/Cavalry were produced as Chariots/Mounted Warriors and upgraded from there. I don't think I actually built any from scratch.

By the time Tanks were available I had disbanded about 1/3rd of my core cities. The remaining cities had plenty of room to be productive. In about 20 turns I was able to produce almost 250 tanks.
In my game, even with most of my remoted cities that producing only 1 shield still can build tank without any problem.:) I just let them produce a couple shields and pay gold to buy the remaining shields. Since I'm running a democratic governemnt, my civ could produce 3000+ gold each turn. That's good enough to buy at least 7 new tanks each turn. And since I produce most of my units next to the front line, they will be ready for battle immediately.

I hope this is a legal rule for producing new unit.
Ok, I see. This is the same strategy you mentioned in the Strategy Articles page. I'm assuming that those knights were later upgraded to cavalry also?

I think I'll try it in my next game, but I really never play expansionist civs.
Originally posted by wohmongarinf00l
moonsinger, how do u wage an effective war with a democratic government?

Since this will be a long post, I will start a new thread and will try to outline my democratic war strategy sometimes this weekend or later tonight if I have time.
Originally posted by Moonsinger
my civ could produce 3000+ gold each turn. That's good enough to buy at least 7 new tanks each turn. And since I produce most of my units next to the front line, they will be ready for battle immediately.
I hope this is a legal rule for producing new unit.
Absolutely, you had to work to get that income, this seems like a great way to use it!
i have reduced the problem of playing as zulus to that of working to gain some culture and building infrastructure to do the absolute minimum research to stay at par with everyone's military.

since i always played persians, it was always easy to build stuff and a generous use of immortals always gave me some territory in the beginning. with the zulus, i can get as much territory as i want but i can't support that territory.

it's industrial times now and i have tech parity (i saved enough shields for theory of evolution and i have a leader ready to build hoover dam).

i really can't afford frivolous research so after motorized transport and flight, research will take a back seat.
it's bad enough i haven't a single bank or cathedral. universities took forever to build and some cities are waiting for aqueducts....hell, damn near half the cities are waiting for aqueducts.
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