DLC + Modding = ?

[Tylerryan79]

If they are willing to steal the DLC then they are probably willing to steal the game.

This. If people buy the game, then pirate the dlc, I'd think steam could tell, atleast Id hope it could. If not sort of defeats having steam as drm. Anyways, people who buy the game but then pirate wont be able to take part in anything that has to do with online play, and might as well just not buy the game to begin with.

 

[Chiyochan]

If they are willing to steal the DLC then they are probably willing to steal the game.

I'd certainly feel tempted to not hand over a buck if fraxis decided to lock down civs so that i couldnt play the mods that used them or with people who payed for the DLC.

 

[Tarkhan]

The only surefire way to see how Civ5 will handle this is to wait a few months after release. I don't think they'll lock out parts of the game from being modded, but theres no proof that they won't.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well I could see the dlc being encrypted so you couldn't Use it in a mod.
ie if I wanted to make a mod with Babylon with a different UA, I could probably do that, but I couldn't include the Leader animation in the mod... instead I could include in the mod a pointer that says to get the 'babylon leader animation' If they don't have that... then the mod will crash/be blank when animating Babylon.

 

[Louis XXIV]

At a minimum, I'm sure they'd treat it like expansions in previous games. You can't upload unmodified graphics from Civs that you download, you can only refer to them in mod files and tell people that, in order to play the expansion, you need to have this DLC. There's also nothing to stop people from making their own leaders and unit art to parallel a DLC civ aside from time and resources.

Enforceability of this is pretty straight forward. Sites like this one have always deleted content that is illegal to upload and I'm sure the Mod server would do the same thing. Sure people will pirate it, but it wouldn't be officially tolerated (and is something that happened in the past, so I'm sure they'll have factored that in).

 

[Zhahz]

DLC will add new civilizations, ect for money payments. Doing something like this would be pretty silly if you have complete freedom to mod in new civilizations, ect. The only way DLC like this would work is if they disable adding new civs into the game. Anyone else worried?

It gives options. Some people might prefer DLC over mods, or mods over DLC, or a mix of both.

 

[Tarkhan]

I think of DLC as mods with a lot of polish. Example being stuff like leader animations in the case of Civs, and possibly more balanced UU's/Civ powers. (Though the modding community is good at getting game balance right)

 

[Tomice]

Fallout 3 had an extremely versatile modding tool set, Betheseda used the same tool set to create their own DLC which they charged for, the DLC they sold was locked and encrypted so that it couldn't be tampered with.

DLC does not mean that modders will be limited in their content, nor does it mean that DLC will be easy to pirate.

This. Dragon Age is another good example.

Sites like this one have always deleted content that is illegal to upload and I'm sure the Mod server would do the same thing. Sure people will pirate it, but it wouldn't be officially tolerated.

And this Fansites like CFC want a good relationship with the company, so even mentioning cracked DLC here would be sanctioned by a mod. Cracks for both DLC and game will exist, but they won't be accessible on legal sites, so many will not want to bother with it.

Those who know the places and are willing to use cracks won't buy the game in the first place, so DLCs are no concern. Those who have a legal game won't break it with illegal DLC.

 

[Tarkhan]

Also a cracked version of Civ5 wouldnt be able to get patched, and thus probably wouldnt even be compatible with DLC. Just buy the game.

 

[r_rolo1]

The real picke in here is that Firaxis is promissing two incompatible things: extensive modding capability and uniqueness of DLC content ( obviously, otherwise why spend, the bucks in it ? ). Those two together don't make sense at all ... think on this, first you say that modding is easy, give extensive tools for that and such, then you say "I have this unique content you can't find anywhere else ... buy it " ... in this context, what stops me of ripping the DLC partly or completely , use it in a mod of my own and release it? If I'm allowed to mod the game proper, why not the DLC contents ? if I can put a moustache in Liz and use it as LH of Normandy ( ), why not Hammurabi ? They are both property of firaxis in the same degree ...

Worse, from the code structure that Civ V appears to have ( Exe, Dll , Lua script, XML with only the exe unaccessible for the modders ... pretty much like in Civ IV ), it is virtually impossible to detect DLC content except by manual examination. Not seeing how Firaxis, in this context, could even check every possible modded game except by exclusive locking ( only firaxis recognized modded versions can run, the others are blocked ... something like HoF mod does to avoid cheating ), a thing that would make modding hard as hell ( because you couldn't test development versions and would need that the player would ask firaxis permission to play with every single minor change he would do ( remember, even changing the autosave interval in Civ IV is modding ) ) ...

In short, you can't have open door to modders and protect DLC content with the game structure publicized so far. One has to give ... and IMHO it will be DLC protection. In fact , I'm willing to bet that the 0-day DLC content will be distributed freely with a patch sooner or later.

 

[Lord Arska]

This. Dragon Age is another good example.

What do you mean? I'm pretty certain I read somewhere that DA's DLC can be obtained by illegal means.

My point is that pirates will almost always get around any protection methods.

Luckily Civ V has more loyal fans than most games, so piracy shouldn't be such a big problem. At least I'm going to buy it. If the DLC will be too expensive I'll just have to live without it.

 

[PawelS]

I think you should be able to make a mod using elements from a DLC, but those who use the mod need to have the DLC installed as well.

 

[r_rolo1]

Not seeing how to implemtent that with the code structure the game appears to have

 

[squadbroken]

The real picke in here is that Firaxis is promissing two incompatible things: extensive modding capability and uniqueness of DLC content ( obviously, otherwise why spend, the bucks in it ? ). Those two together don't make sense at all ...

Uh, what? As someone already mentioned, this has been done before by games like Oblivion and Fallout 3.

 

[The_J]

Well, I don't mean to show any disrespect to our modders, but I think Fraxis is the only one that has the resources to create full fledged character models and voices in the game.

This ^

The modders, try as they may, simply don't have the resources to compete with Firaxis.

I guess you would have said the same about Civ4, and look at the available leaderheads for it now .

 

[r_rolo1]

Uh, what? As someone already mentioned, this has been done before by games like Oblivion and Fallout 3.

Read the rest of the post, then come back. My argument was that, with the code structure we seem to have, those two don't blend.

 

[squadbroken]

Read the rest of the post, then come back. My argument was that, with the code structure we seem to have, those two don't blend.

Better inform Firaxis, I'm sure they'll be shocked to know their system won't work.

 

[Souron]

I think you should be able to make a mod using elements from a DLC, but those who use the mod need to have the DLC installed as well.

The problem with this, is that if there are a lot of DLCs, then it would be impractical for a mod developer to expect many players to have the mix of DLCs needed for his specific mod. So the developer has to choose between quality and audience size.

 

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

Fallout 3 had an extremely versatile modding tool set, Betheseda used the same tool set to create their own DLC which they charged for, the DLC they sold was locked and encrypted so that it couldn't be tampered with.

DLC does not mean that modders will be limited in their content, nor does it mean that DLC will be easy to pirate.

Fallout 3's official DLC was extremely easy to pirate, don't really know where you are getting your info from.

 

[r_rolo1]

Better inform Firaxis, I'm sure they'll be shocked to know their system won't work.

So, tell me exactly how, with a system where only the exe is out of reach of the modders, can you lock out a civ, that is handled in a far lower code level ... at least without hardcoding a lock on DLC stuff in the exe ( this obviously suppose that Firaxis already knows all the DLC that will produce in the useful life of Civ V ... otherwise i can always play in offline mode while porting the DLC stuff out of other computer ).

P.S Obviously assuming that they will continue giving the kind of modding latitude we have in civ IV, as they promised. That is my point after all ...