attackfighter
Emperor
bethesda's been known to threaten modders with legal action, it's possible for 2k to do so as well
DLC vs. Modding
- Thread starter GigaNerd
- Start date
They never did anything about OOO, which completely rebalanced the game, adding new items/enemies, and changed the leveling system. They didn't do anything to the UI mod that made all the icons smaller so you could see more of your inventory at a time. They didn't do anything to the high resolution texture replacement pack, or the better faces mod that made characters less ugly.
I completely understand if they threatened "modders" who just copy and pasted the paid DLC or made slight tweaks and tried to distribute it for free and take credit for it.
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
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Unless 2K come out with clear instructions on what modders can do, how modders can manage DLC, how 2K will manage the distribution of mods and mods that change DLC, and what (if any) 2K will do in instances they deem as infringing their copyrights in mods and fan sites, there will always be a grey area of "unknown" which causes risk to us modders.
If they provide that, then I will feel safe enough to mod Civ5 since both my and 2K's areas are clearly defined.
If they provide that, then I will feel safe enough to mod Civ5 since both my and 2K's areas are clearly defined.
I'm sure they'll provide the details closer to release. Right now they seem to be hugging all news close to the chest, probably because they have deals with different news sites and magazines to dish out the information slowly through news exclusives over the next few months.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Do we even know for sure that they are planning to create a series of post-release DLC-for-cash?
I haven't read all the latest stuff in detail, so this is a genuine question. But if we don't even know that (and I didn't see it) then some of this panic seems a little premature.
The fact that they are using the phrase DLC is why people are concerned. Most companies use it to refer to paid content.
Valve uses the phrase DLC for their free content on PC/Mac (Left 4 Dead 1/2 and Team Fortress 2 have had tons of free DLC) but that's probably because they also sell Left 4 Dead 1/2 on Xbox 360 and the DLC costs $7 there.
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
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If DLC != paid-for additions then all I can say is someone at 2K has caused a PR nightmare for them. I sincerely hope that they mean "value-added additions" like we got with WW1 mod and extra stuff in patches for Civ4. If this is the case, then I retract my comments and fears. But if they do truly mean paid-for additions then I predict a mess. 
attackfighter
Emperor
They did threaten the makers of Morroblivion though, and that's more relevant to the matter we're discussing.
Morroblivion was a mod meant to simulate one of Bethesdas past releases; it would be similar to a civ mod which included a Babylon civ or other features previously seen in Firaxis DLC.
OOO changed a lot of stuff, however it didn't infringe on previous Bethesda work - thus it doesn't really pertain to our current discussion, which is whether mods will be able to cover stuff already covered by DLC and to what extent they'll be able to do so.
Anyways, the point of my post was to mainly to show that other devs had taken legal action against modders in the past (a fact which another poster showed skepticism towards). I wasn't saying it's likely to happen - just that it's possible.
schlaufuchs
Break My Heart
My fear with modding is that Take2 will go the same route as E:TW. When E: TW was in the works, CA said that it would be "the most moddable game of the franchise, and that they'd release modding tools to make it easier than ever to mod the game. We're now a year and a half after the release of E: TW and it's still almost completely unmoddable to the best of my knowledge.
It's just like you guys have been saying, why allow people to offer for free what you can easily give out for a fee? I have a feeling that they are only saying it will be moddable to get people to buy the game on release day, and never actually give it away.
*EDIT* Not sure if the above was already brought up, I only read the first two pages of the thread.
It's just like you guys have been saying, why allow people to offer for free what you can easily give out for a fee? I have a feeling that they are only saying it will be moddable to get people to buy the game on release day, and never actually give it away.
*EDIT* Not sure if the above was already brought up, I only read the first two pages of the thread.
Is it possible that only civilizations and their leaders will just be DLC?
Leaders having unique physical actions and facial expressions in diplomacy representing how that civilization feels towards you. Looking at the previews the leaders do not stop moving in the diplomacy screen. Is that very difficult for modders to create?
I'll admit now I will not pay for anything other than expansion packs. Any small Downloadable content like new civs I will be getting off the 'black market' on the internet.
Leaders having unique physical actions and facial expressions in diplomacy representing how that civilization feels towards you. Looking at the previews the leaders do not stop moving in the diplomacy screen. Is that very difficult for modders to create?
I'll admit now I will not pay for anything other than expansion packs. Any small Downloadable content like new civs I will be getting off the 'black market' on the internet.
This is true, modders can only tweak a few stats and recolour skins. Empire total war also made you download like 400mb of day one patches, since the original game was made unplayable to 'protect against pirates'
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
The question is what happens if someone releases a very good Babylon mod on steam that is very popular and successful, yet is created from scratch, which seems to clearly undermine dlc sales?
I'm sure there will be some agreement you have to sign before using the integrated mod service to the effect that 2k/Firaxis retain full rights to remove any and all mods they want to for any reason.
Will they suck it up and say "great mod, we'll have to do better next time" or will they try to fight it?
I'm sure there will be some agreement you have to sign before using the integrated mod service to the effect that 2k/Firaxis retain full rights to remove any and all mods they want to for any reason.
Will they suck it up and say "great mod, we'll have to do better next time" or will they try to fight it?
Chalks
The blue pieces
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The same thing that will happen if someone makes a mod similar to any of the expansion content from any of the previous games.
The only thing that is new about DLC is that it's more modular, allowing you to pick and choose what you buy instead of buying one huge pile of stuff all at once.
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
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Cite where 2K have confirmed this. All we've had confirmed is that 2K have indicated they will move from a free content model added into patches, to an initial paid DLC model (the fact it costs $10 more for the Babylon Edition more than proves that).
No you're wrong here again too. DLC via Steamworks alters the core files, they are not added as modular mods. The massively new thing (and most worrying) is that they are creating a non-unique baseline which will severely hurt MP'ers. A player have 'extra' content over baseline players has an advantage.
Chalks
The blue pieces
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NovaSilisko
Chieftain
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If the DLC is things like scenario packs and the like, I don't think it would be too much of a problem. I highly doubt they would go so far as to actually have units be DLC.
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
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Hey you're the one that advocates Steamworks so much, you already know that DLC within Steamworks alters the main game files. And of course there's the many other games that do this too.
BTW, you avoided citing where 2K confirmed they will treat mods infringing Civ5 DLC the same as expansions in Civ4.
NovaSilisko
Chieftain
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Anyway for my two cents:
DLC should stay on the consoles.
DLC should stay on the consoles.
And this issue with that is a violation of Morrowind's EULA. If you tried to 're-make' Civ4 using Civ5 you'd probably be shut down too, but since Civ games don't have plot driven stories and unique characters beyond some rather basic leaders I can't really see anybody doing that as it would be pretty pointless.
Modding is funny that way, the modders taking shortcuts get slammed while the innovative ones thrive. Perhaps you've heard of these EXTREMELY successful mods that were never shut down: Fall From Heaven, Team Fortress and Counter Strike.
I know the vocal minority on the Internet thinks that copying a product to create a 'fan mod' in another product is a way of showing support but the owners of those products they copy tend to feel otherwise. History has shown that the general public agrees with the copyright holders as the most popular mega-mods out there aren't carbon copies of something else, even with immensly popular IP. Just look no further than CFC- Star Wars and Star Trek are very popular IP franchises, are they the two most popular Civ mods?
It's also important to note than many modders view a cease and desist order to be a badge of honor, their way of standing up to the man. There have been a lot of these alleged letters from evil lawyers and corporate suits that have been proven false. Just something to keep in mind when you try to find out how many times mods really do get shut down by some evil corporation.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that a lot of you need to relax, there's no point in getting all worked up into a frenzy when you don't even know what's really going to happen.
