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DLC vs. Modding

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by GigaNerd, May 6, 2010.

  1. GigaNerd

    GigaNerd His Nerdiness

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    In that recent article everyone's been talking about, it says that DLC's gonna be a feature in Civ5. Here's my question: Why bother buying DLC when modders can make nearly identical content? :confused:

    BTW, would it be legal to buy the Deluxe Edition and distribute the Babylonian Civilization over CFC for free? Or is that illegal? (I'd like to have Babylonia, but I'm a bit cautious about buying the Deluxe Edition)



    Last question: Everyone says DRM is bad. I'm a n00b, so would anybody care to explain the evils of DRM to me? :blush:
     
  2. Dale

    Dale Deity

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    It just means those people can't pirate the game. ;)
     
  3. mechaerik

    mechaerik Tuturuu!

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    What recent article? I haven't seen anything confirming DLC in Civ5.

    Also, @Dale:
    I don't like DRM either (well, some kinds anyways), but that doesn't mean I plan to pirate the game.
     
  4. GigaNerd

    GigaNerd His Nerdiness

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    It's on the front page! How can you miss it? :crazyeye:

    "Sid Meier's Civilization V players will enjoy the benefits of the Steamworks' features included in all PC versions such as auto-updating, Steam Achievements, downloadable content, multiplayer matchmaking and more."



    Wait... so there are more evils to DRM than just anti-piracy? :confused:
     
  5. Dale

    Dale Deity

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    Did you note the winky? ;)
     
  6. Toni1

    Toni1 Warlord

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    We'll have to wait and see what kind of modding tools are included with game, what they are capable of and wether or not there's any restrictions in their use.

    Yes, it's illegal to distribute any part of original game content without permission from Firaxis/2k.

    DRM, Digital Rights Management is a way for publishers to retrict how users use their digital products. The wary from disk checks/copy protection/cd-keys to limited activations and requiring constant internet connection. There are also medhods to prevent resale of retail games (only applies to retail games bought from stores, you can't sell games bought from digital distribution services like steam) or restrict their resale value (this usally involves one time use only registration keys to specific services like DLC, Forums etc.). While there are reports of DRM causing various hardware and software problems it seems problems are very hardware specific (my only experience is downgrading of my DVD drive speed. This was starforge from years ago) so you are not very likely to encounter them unless you use old games as some of old DRM may not be compatible with latest OS's or hardware. Most of the software issues are probably mostly related to incompatibility with newer programs and drivers but they may intentionally interfere with the operations of specific programs (The most serious I've experienced is starforge included in Space Rangers II (same as above) refusing to allow running of game while there were image mounting programs present (Alcohol 120%/Daemon Tools)). I may have been lucky or it's due to fact that I crack the games I buy or maybe problems are excacerated, hard to tell. Limited activations may also cause problems if you install often as depending of the publisher, the activations may not be renewable and once spend you may have to actually rebuy the game to reinstall.
     
  7. MrHan

    MrHan Chieftain

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    What really ticked me off about that last article was that I had to buy the SE just to get babylon.

    Like.. seriously? Civ =/= Pokemon. If there was a SE version of say... Pokemon Diamond that gave me 20 additional pokemons, I would probably buy that. But Civ is not that kind of a game. The sale of SE to milk bucks from players who want the entire game is cheap, cheap, CHEAP!!! I'm not gonna buy SE just to get babylon, and in the unlikely event that I do, I won't be happy doing it. I'm starting to hate 2k for bringing Civ down to the level of Pokemons.

    What's worse, I don't think Pokemon's even done that cheap bullshiii, and yet Civ is going right at it.

    Screw you 2k.
     
  8. attackfighter

    attackfighter Emperor

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    I prefer user made content because they have more freedom with their work. Like, amateurs can make mods with Hitler in it and no one cares, but the professionals can't because it would be 'bad for the company image' or some bs lol.

    User made content is also free (although sometimes DLC is too) and it's usually more complex, as opposed to DLC which is usually dumbed down for marketability.
     
  9. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    As already pointed out it would not be legal, just to point out: it would also be against forum rules and users doing something like this would not be looked kindly on...
     
  10. Magma

    Magma Prince

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    Personally I am not going to buy any DLC for a game I already paid for.
     
  11. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Blablabla, right now you are not looked kindly on
    The whole modding system will be ruined :S
    CFC and other forums will be useless, as you will need to have all your files through steam

    Rather reopen the poll :p
     
  12. eireksten

    eireksten Protective/Organized

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    Steam doesn't hinder modding. I have a Steambased version of Civ4, and I can mod everything just as anyone else.
     
  13. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    So, how different does something have to be until it is user-created content?

    Are we banning *any* maps of the Fertile Crescent region? What if someone takes their map and tweaks it slightly? What if they use the base map but add their own scneario on top?

    Can they use the Leader images of the Bablyonian leader and reskin them or change them? How large does that change have to be? There's a minefield here.
     
  14. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    Technically it may not hinder modding, from the legal point of view it will easily do so.

    DLC for which you have paid for sure won't be distributable.
    Consequently, this means that any modifications of such DLC like re-skinning and whatnotever at least will be very questionable.
    Let there be just one animation not being available in the standard package, and voilá: copyright!

    In turn this means that forums like this here would have to be very restrictive in allowing to upload user-made graphics, scenarios, mods and so on.
    That much to the advertised "moddability".

    Furthermore, you cannot compare Civ4 with Civ5. To the best of my knowledge, for Civ4 all versions, in whichever way they may have been distributed, have been identical in terms of gameplay, units, graphics and so on.

    With Civ5 it will be different - see "creator's edition" and DLC...

    And finally, I see patches coming as DLC. For just $ 5,00 - only this week. ....
     
  15. eireksten

    eireksten Protective/Organized

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    So you're saying that the fact that Steam supports DLC hinders modding?

    DLC for Civ5 isn't Steam's fault. That's the choice of the developers/distributors. Steam in itself does not hinder modding.
     
  16. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    No, not steam. The DLC system

     
  17. eireksten

    eireksten Protective/Organized

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    I just read what you wrote the first time, and responded to that. It seemed like you were one of those wanting to attribute all problems to Steam.

    About the announcement of DLC, I don't know what to think. I'm sure Jon Shafer wants Civ5 to be as moddable as possible. Since we don't really know yet how the DLC relates to modding, I'll just wait for some more intel on this before making up my mind.
     
  18. phungus420

    phungus420 Deity

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    Minefield is an accurate description. If the original reports were true, and we are getting near full exposure of source and XML (ala civ4), it will be impossible to clearly define what is and what isn't allowed. Firaxis are setting themselves up to be in direct competition with the modding community and at the same time are tempting fate and creating a de facto incentive to copy DLC works. This isn't smart from a business perspective. I can understand the decision to use Steam, I don't personally like it, but it makes good business sense. The decision to create zero day DLC, and presumably alot more DLC later, while at the same time releasing high power mod tools is, ironically, only going to lead toward alot of bad blood between the modding community and Firaxis.
     
  19. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Right. This is what seems weird to me.
    Paid DLC and supporting a mod community (and Civ arguably has a stronger mod community than any other game series in history) seem to conflict.

    But I'm guessing that DLC is aimed at the silent-majority "casual" gamers who don't go to fansites like Civfanatics and aren't really interested in installing 3rd party mods. Pure speculation, but I bet that at least 80% of Civ4 purchasers never installed any mod ever or edited any game file, they just played the game as-is, and maybe installed the official patches and maybe bought some official expansions.
    So perhaps they intend to sell DLC to these silent types, and use no enforcement mechanism other than inertia to stop modders from doing whatever they like with the content.

    So the question is; what is Civfanatics policy on this? There should be a clear policy on what is and is not allowed as hosted content. Anything that is not 100% identical to official DLC is fair-game (as long as it doesn't try to say "free version of official DLC" or similar in its description)?
     
  20. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    That's interesting - especially since the animated leaders are not going to be easily modable it seems. I would assume that reusing existing ones would be common.

    Perhaps you simply wouldn't be able to redistribute the unmodified aspects of the file (like the models if you reskinned it)?
     

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