Do you believe in life after death?

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I for one as an Atheist am convinced there is no life after death. What do you think?

Also, on reincarnation:

Does anyone here remember a former life? If not, and if that should be the rule, would reincarnation be any different from no life after death at all?

No on both counts. I have no reason to think that there's anything after death.

 

[punkbass2000]

You don't believe in yourself?

Nope Well, not really. In a day to day sense, sure. Just like I believe in the chair I'm sitting on. But I don't really believe in "a chair". Not to say I think reality is non-existent or a fabrication, mind you. It's more that I don't see any particular reason I should separate "the chair" from the rest of reality, and smae for myself. There is no line to be drawn, IMO.

Your career advisor will be most displeased.

They already are

 

[El_Machinae]

The problem with such relativism, is that we can tell that it's mostly for show. Mainly because you certainly ACT like you think the world is real (in that, you follow the rules of reality that we all ascribe to).

Have I mentioned that I think that if we can cure aging, we have a definite shot at actual immortality, such that there wouldn't be a need for an afterlife?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Have I mentioned that I think that if we can cure aging, we have a definite shot at actual immortality, such that there wouldn't be a need for an afterlife?

Immortality would be a curse. Have you ever sat down and thought about it for at least 5 minutes?

 

[El_Machinae]

Have you ever thought about killing yourself in the next 5 minutes? Neither have I. If I can 'stand' to live for 5 more minutes, and then 'stand' to live for another 5 years, then I can extrapolate that maybe life is worth living, as long as a minimum standard is met.

Plus, there would always be suicide.

Being forced to die by nature is something I don't really appreciate.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Being forced to die by nature is something I don't really appreciate.

Well, unless you change your opinion between now and then (highly likely Id say), youre going to be one unhappy old camper when youre on your deathbed. Why do you want to stay in highschool forever? Graduating opens up a whole new world

 

[punkbass2000]

The problem with such relativism, is that we can tell that it's mostly for show. Mainly because you certainly ACT like you think the world is real (in that, you follow the rules of reality that we all ascribe to).

Where did I claim I did not believe in reality? I believe I went out of my way to specifically mention that I do believe in reality.

 

[El_Machinae]

Graduating opens up a whole new world

You're using a metaphor, what are you implying? I can a priori state that I enjoy living - why should I give it up? And what is wrong with taking affirmative actions to continue your own life?

PBass2grand: sorry, I clearly didn't believe that you actually believed, but now I believe, believe me.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

El, lets review: the natural order of things is that people are born, grow up, live out their years, grow old and then die. But you have a better idea, which is that people live forever, or as long as they can stand it, then they can commit suicide? This is your improvement on nature? As Rommel used to say "Tanks, but no tanks"

 

[El_Machinae]

What was your metaphor regarding highschool about?

And what's wrong with violating the 'natural course of things'? If we can do it, it's still working within nature, right? Eyeglasses, computers, Cesaerian Section births, flying, growing crops, breeding animals, etc.

We do all these things, and it works. Tinkering with nature allows us to be healthier and wealthier, and probably even happier, since we have more free time to work on being happy.

You want to die because of some gene in your body starts to turn off? That's like saying that you want to be short-sighted because your parents were short-sighted. We inherited aging from our parents, but we work against inheritance all the time, and try to improve ourselves instead.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

What was your metaphor regarding highschool about?

Its about going on to the next stage, evolving. You know how mosquitos live the first part of their life in puddles? Every once in awhile, one of them reaches a certain point, flies up out of the world and dissapears, leaving the rest of the mosquitos sad and frightened, and determined not to go away. The little mosquitos still in the puddle are silly to feel that way, arent they?

You want to die because of some gene in your body starts to turn off? That's like saying that you want to be short-sighted because your parents were short-sighted. We inherited aging from our parents, but we work against inheritance all the time, and try to improve ourselves instead.

Dont get me wrong, Im a glutton for punishment, I could see sticking around for an extra 200 years or so. But forever? I couldnt imagine anything more horrible.

 

[punkbass2000]

PBass2grand: sorry, I clearly didn't believe that you actually believed, but now I believe, believe me.

Aha! Burn the believer!

 

[El_Machinae]

Aha! Burn the believer!

I'll send you the bill for cleaning coffee off of my monitor!

Its about going on to the next stage, evolving.

You believe that we evolve after we die? As well, does this evolution occur on a recognizable time scale, or does this evolution occur after our Universe is over? If it occurs afterward, then there is no need to die in the interim. If it occurs beforehand, then I guess you have a motivation for suicide (or at least, not taking affirmative steps to continue your life).

Im a glutton for punishment, I could see sticking around for an extra 200 years or so.

Wouldn't you prefer being given the option of giving up forever when that 200 years is up, instead of being forced to not get those 200 years in the first place? Like I said, if you can imagine wanting to be alive for the next five years, then you should also be able to imagine that in five years, you'll want another five years.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

You believe that we evolve after we die?

I believe that death is a natural part of the life cycle.

Wouldn't you prefer being given the option of giving up forever when that 200 years is up, instead of being forced to not get those 200 years in the first place? Like I said, if you can imagine wanting to be alive for the next five years, then you should also be able to imagine that in five years, you'll want another five years.

How old are you? Do you really want to be in the rat race forever? Do you want to be sitting in traffic forever? Taking craps forever? Im pretty sure that by the time youre up to your one millionth bowel movement, youve just about had enough. How can you want to be frozen in place forever like some bad Twilight Zone episode?

 

[El_Machinae]

I believe that death is a natural part of the life cycle

Who says that life has to be a cycle? There are lots of things that need never die, genetically, and only outside interference will kill them. Being beholden to your genes is one thing, but controlling our fate outside of genetic inheritance is what makes us people, not animals.

Like I said, my system has a voluntary 'out'. Your system has an involuntary 'out'. I prefer freedoms, and life. Your main complaint is boredom, and that's true at any stage of life, but I don't see us slitting our wrists right now.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Freedom? I dont think so. Your system makes suicide mandatory, wheres the freedom in that?

 

[El_Machinae]

Death is when you choose, and not chosen for you. How is that not more freedom that being executed by your genes at a time of nature's choosing?

There is nothing immoral about taking steps to extend your own life, unless your attempts to extend your own life hurt other people. Then a balance has to be reached, of course.

Finally, wouldn't your opinion on immortality be more viable AFTER the option is available? Right now, you're a teenager trying to understand whether being retired is better than being dead or alive (to use a metaphor). Or trying to decide whether being retired is better than working. You have too little information to make a reasonable extrapolation.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

There is nothing immoral about taking steps to extend your own life, unless your attempts to extend your own life hurt other people. Then a balance has to be reached, of course.

Arent you hurting the people who are born after you? That great apartment youve had for the past 200 years, other people could have used it after you if you had died. That job you still have, that food youre still eating, the air your still breathing. All those babies being born are going to need those, but somewhere one of them has less, because you refuse to go.

 

[El_Machinae]

That's a common misunderstanding. First off, the people creating the babies have a moral obligation to ensure that there are enough resources to sustain their offspring.

Second, you're assuming that resources are static. If I devote some of my efforts to resource expansion (discovering new ways to grow food, discovering ways to reduce pollution, creating new medical services), then as long as I create more resource expansion than I'm consuming, my life is a net 'good' for those babies. In general, people devote more time to effective 'problem solving' when they're adults than when they're children. My attempts to expand the 'net resources' have been much more fruitful since I've become an adult.

As well, in life, every single act of consumption we perform negatively affects someone - someone who's alive NOW, not potentially alive later. Driving to work means the price of gas is a little bit higher, negatively affecting the people who need cheap fuel to live, negatively affecting the price of every good that requires transportation. However, we find this morally acceptable, as long as we don't overconsume, and as long as we contribute more than we take out.

I don't see why a potential life has a greater 'right to life' than someone who is alive now. Every time my girlfriend menstruates, we lose a 'potential life'. So what? It's a moral choice to not bring a being into existence when it cannot be afforded. However, my death would destroy a unique perspective on the world and a unique source of history regarding the world.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Infinite living space and resources makes as much sense as infinite lifespan, meaning, not much.