Do you build privateers?

[ainwood]

I never do. Although I probably would if they had a bombard power - that would be good for "restricting" coastal resources.

Who uses them?

And have you ever seen the AI build them? Again, I haven't.

 

[Richard III]

I built one, once. Out of curiousity. Used it as a scout. For 10 or so turns. And then it was destroyed.

 

[dojoboy]

Rarely have I seen the AI build privateers. I go in stretches of building them. When I find I'm behind early, I'll build them to harass a friendly power. The best use I found for them is attracting enemy ships (exploit?). The AI always seems to go for them --- this may have been fixed in the latest patch. I'll keep a couple frigates, ironclads, etc. in waiting then attack.

 

[BCLG100]

i never normally do because the always seem to lose to other ships

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

I hardly ever build them, unless I want to use them to harrass and lead astray an enemy fleet. But that is only feasible if you mod their A nd D up.

 

[Civddict]

I use them like 3-4 all around friend/enemy. Older ships can be destroyed (and settlers in them )

 

[cracker]

I experimented with privateers in several games and found:

Privateers (ADM=2/1/4) lose to galleys (1/1) about 1/3rd of the time when attacking.

Privateers lose to coracles (1/2) about 60% of the time.

Even when privateers do not lose they rarely survive an attack with full hit points intact and must return to a port to heal.

If you have a tech advantage so that the enemies have only galleys available for a period of time then you may be able to exploit the privateers somewhat but in general they are not cost effective because of their low advantage.

If they had a low bombard strength with a high rate of fire that would get them closer to being of value. Also naval units that can freely move in and out of the ocean and sea should be able to retreat from combat into their advantage zones. It is not logical that a cannon weilding and ocean pirate ship would fight it out to the death with a fragile arrow pitching galley that can only hug the coasts. The pirates would swoop in and either sink the galley or just do as much damage as possible and then retreat back into the blackness of the open ocean and use their superior speed to survive and return at another location. (The naval retreat ability should be controlled by a special unit ability flag called "retreat to open water".)

Privateers should have a transport capacity of 2 to let them carry raiding parties of foot units only (just like pirate ships really did).

Privateers should also get a gold bonus for every ship that they sink (read this as attack, board, loot, rape, pillage, then scuttle). This is what pirates did you dummy!!! They attacked ships to steal the cargo and get rich. This would be somewhat like the barbarian village bonuses of 25 or 50 gold per village. Capturing an enemy vessel with a settler or workers on board should yield slaves that show up in the nearest friendly city or town or back in your capital. (Naval victory bonus abilities should be controlled by two special unit ability flags called "Bounty from Naval Victory" and "Capture naval slaves")

Another option would be to pirate strategic and luxury resources (just like really happened in the Carribean and in the Indian oceans.) If the pirate ship has the "steal resources" flag checked, then there would be a probability of gaining the use of a luxury resource for 10 or 20 turns when an enemy vessel is sunk. This probability should be controlled in the editor and the resources should only be available when the captured ship comes from a civ that has the resource.

 

[Hawkster]

Only time I ever tried building them they got destroyed almost at once - seems the AI aims right for them. But strangely enough the domestic advisor is always prompting me to build them (even though I rarely build any ships) - does she know something I don't ?? Or is it just AI silliness again ???

 

[Masquerouge]

Yeah I remember the first time I built them. I was SOOO happy, like "He he he, who is going to sneak on you now ?". 10 years of playing CIV with the sword of reputation hanging over my head every time I moved an unit would be finally paid for with these privateers. I had like 10 or 15 cities producing them. I had planned a total and merciless destruction of every foreign naval power. I WAS ABOUT TO RULE THE WORLD !


And then my first privateer lost to a galley.
...

...

Next turn I had like 10 or 15 cities switching their production.

 

[Myartar]

Originally posted by Masquerouge
Yeah I remember the first time I built them. I was SOOO happy, like "He he he, who is going to sneak on you now ?". 10 years of playing CIV with the sword of reputation hanging over my head every time I moved an unit would be finally paid for with these privateers. I had like 10 or 15 cities producing them. I had planned a total and merciless destruction of every foreign naval power. I WAS ABOUT TO RULE THE WORLD !


And then my first privateer lost to a galley.
...

...

Next turn I had like 10 or 15 cities switching their production.

LOL!! And you looked up to see the sword still there.

I modified the ADM to make them like 3/1/4 with bombard of 2. With those stats, the AI usally will have 2 or 3 hiding in cities waiting for you to get too close. They use like a hit and run so you can't sink'em. I use them all the time to pick off Galleys and Caravels. I have them escorted by a frigate or ironclad most of the time so i can do the same thing the AI does w/ the hit and run.

 

[Masquerouge]

I've got to admit I was VERY tempted to flag ICBM as privateers.

You know, like "hey Shaka, so I heard you were hit by 55 nukes ? Dang, too bad. Wonder where they come from. Maybe they were back from migration ?
...
What do you mean by "You're the only one to know nuclear fission ?" What does it have to do with it ?"

But hey, I'm not a cheater.

Now, say, can you really flag a nuke as privateer ?

 

[Myartar]

I am a cheater when I get bored. I made all military units hidden nationality once. It was pretty cool, everyone was always fighting, constant world war. Made it cooler was I started nowhere near any Iron so I traded Rome for some and was fighting a undeclared war with materials they provided.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Speaking of flagging stuff Hidden Nationality, one could certainly make a case for that subs should have it ...

I've built Privateers in numbers on one game, in an ultimately failed attempt to grind down the huge Iroquois fleet before launching an invasion on their continent. Ironically, the Iroquois thalassocracy was finally brought low when I managed to ship over a force of Cavalry and Cavalry armies and take their chief port city - it was found to contain one battleship, half a dozen destroyers and nummerous older ships, plus some aircraft.

Nowadays I don't build any Privateers at all - there are more useful things to spend shields on, IMHO.

 

[uknemesis]

Personally I think a worker is more use in combat!

Privateers seem to be beaten by everything. And as soon as frigates are built, it's bye to any chance of sinking enemies.

I agree submarines should get hidden nationality so they could be the up to date version of the privateer.

Nemesis

 

[Sodak]

Originally posted by Myartar
I modified the ADM to make them like 3/1/4 with bombard of 2.

I modded mine to 3/1/6, bombard 2. (I upped all post-galley ship movement) Now I build a small fleet of them each game. This is also my default barbarian ship. All those default barb galleys are good for is to alter my path, they present no danger.

They can sink all wooden ships with reasonable success, but are completely worthless against ironclads and better. In my last game, I was busy pirating the americans and english (by bombarding terrain - cutting off luxuries and an iron on the coasts), then sold the english saltpeter. Out sails a man-o-war... past my 2 privateers. He came back about 15 turns later and sank both of them. But in the meantime, I'd ruined improvements on several terrain squares.

That piracy (and the occasional city attack support) is fair enough to me. The AI suffers lowered production on a tile or two until a worker can rebuild roads and such. Cutting off luxuries will cost them in either happiness or income. That's what piracy is, imho.

 

[sealman]

I gave my privateers 3-2-5 stats with a bombard of 2, makes thema little more useful and a little quicker than the run of the mill galley.

I normally set 3 or 4 together to harrass enemy shipping.

With regards to subs.... They should not be hidden nationality. Most nations can tell the ships origins just by the sounds that it makes.

That being said, CIV 3 givens us 2 types of subs, the old diesel boats and modern nukes. I gave the diesel's the hidden naitonality flag and the abbility to carry foot soilders to be used as a sort of special opps boat..... I also lowered its attack by 1 just because I wanted to.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

hehe, it seems there is general agreement that 3/1or2/>4 privateers are usefull.... I even play with the normal ones, you can lure enemy battleships and Cruisers out of hiding, then bombard them down and kill them for cheap

 

[bobgote]

They're absolutely useless. I agree with cracker. They firstly need to be modded up to 3 attack. Then they need the ability to either capture enemy ships, or get a cash reward for each one sunk. Can this be modded? I doubt it, and if it could, it would probably be pretty complicated. Am I right?

 

[SunZsu]

how about an editor capability that allows you to build ANY naval unit and make it a Privateer ....... imagine Destroyers, Battleships, or Subs as Privateers - like Pirates with modern naval units!!!!! ....... [phaser]
_________________________________________________

the Khan would approve - FEAR THE HORDE, HE RIDES AGAIN!

 

[Myartar]

Originally posted by SunZsu
how about an editor capability that allows you to build ANY naval unit and make it a Privateer ....... imagine Destroyers, Battleships, or Subs as Privateers - like Pirates with modern naval units!!!!! ....... [phaser]
!

You can do that, just turn on the Hidden Nationality flag in the editor, instant pirate, arrr!