Do you ever...

[tschukki]

...change your ideology?

I considered this a no go (and still do basically), but in a recent game as Arabia (standard pangea, deity) i came very close to doing it, and now, after being defeated, i think it may have been the only way out. I had been the second to pick one, went freedom, and in the next couple of turns each of the AIs went autocracy. Then within a few turns i was denounced, dowed and destroyed by the world. After the denounciations i could have switched to autocracy but took the 6 free units instead to make a stand. I hadnt expected to have to defend against everyone on the map though. Maybe switching would have deescalated things?!

With Assyria and the Inkas as direct neighbours and Alex very close I had been disliked througout the whole game. Assur hated me for being there, the Inkas for religious issues (had a strong desert folklore going) and Alex for being allied with most of the city states. But there had been only one big war when Assur und Alex dowed simultaneously, apart from that i had managed to keep them busy with each other. My Science was decent, so two turns without beakers would have been bad, but not terrible.


...found a crappy religion only to defend a pantheon?

Had the 1 hammer/workboat pantheon going on a peninsula with 4 coastal cities and lots of sea resources. Two neighbours, Egypt and Portugal, founded an early religion, and i was afraid to lose these nice workboat hammers very soon. So I went Oracle - Hagia Sophia in the capitol with the idea to found a 5th or 6th religion just to keep them from converting me for a while. But when the Hagia Sophia was finished (I was somewhat surprised to actually get it) both of them were already spamming missionaries. So I changed plans, planted the prophet, and as a result was late with civil service etc. This may have been a misplayed opening?!


...care who you steal workers from?

From city states i steal them even if they are protected by one or more AIs. Im not sure, but it seems that this doesnt cause huge diplomatic trouble?! I also used to steal from AIs regardless who it is, but in a recent game this caused a perpetual war with Oda. He just wouldnt make peace. Do the AIs react differently when their workers are stolen?

 

[SirPepsi]

A) Rarely, I will change my Ideology - especially if I've neglected tourism. Try and build the Eiffel Tower - the AI doesn't usually beeline it (even on Emperor and Immortal) and the happiness + tourism is unbeatable.

B) No, if I've neglected faith, I might try and eek out a religion for Tithe + Pagodas and later for Feed the World, but if I've got the Celts or Ethiopians as neighbors, there's just no point. I hope they pick up Jesuit Edu. and use it then.

C) I never steal workers from the AI, but then I don't declare war too often. I /may/ take a worker from an unprotected CS early in the game, but no a cultural one nor one I plan to ally w/ soon.

 

[tschukki]

Thanks for the answer. To make it clearer: Question a) is not if you ever change ideology because of happiness issues. In said game when going freedom I had (obv) built in a happiness buffer, so no problems on that front. Without a really happy empire or a very strong culture you just shouldnt pick an ideology that will most likely not be picked by most of the AIs.

Btw: Your amount of tourism and your people rebelling against your ideology are not connected afaik.

 

[kb27787]

A) NO!!! (I play for CV anyway) THEY will have to change their ideology to suit mine usually if you have some friends to begin with and you've been sending them "gifts" and you propose popular WC resolutions, the ideology hit shouldn't lead to war. If I am being completely dominated tourism/culture/military wise by my neighbor, I don't rush to get an ideology until he picks.
B) As long as you keep your holy city (inquisitor is useful) it is worth it. (besides this allows you to propose world religion when going for CV) and no religion is crappy... there are more than 8 decent follower beliefs which means you can always pick a good one.
C) I always just get it from CS (more reliable and doesn't risk any chance of getting your warrior/scout killed because you didn't see some troops lying in wait or if you get unlucky and a barb happens to block your retreat)... from AI settlers maybe... if they've been captured by barbs I am not the least bit inclined to return it.

 

[SirPepsi]

Thanks for the answer. To make it clearer: Question a) is not if you ever change ideology because of happiness issues. In said game when going freedom I had (obv) built in a happiness buffer, so no problems on that front. Without a really happy empire or a very strong culture you just shouldnt pick an ideology that will most likely not be picked by most of the AIs.

Btw: Your amount of tourism and your people rebelling against your ideology are not connected afaik.

Unless you have dissidents you're not allowed to change Ideology anyway. Sometimes it's unpredictable (Siam goes either Freedom or Autocracy). If you pick freedom, and they, having a lot of tourism decide on Autocracy, other AIs are more likely to pick Autocracy as well.

 

[Forkandles]

a) Rarely change ideology. If Im first to choose Ill always pick Order and I wont give up the bonuses from the Order policies unless happiness is unbearable. Diplomacy wise Ive usually locked the other Civs into DOFs or wars. If Ive got a nut-job autocracy on my borders however Ill be looking to build bombers and infantry around this time anyway.

b) Never. If I dont have a faith building pantheon I dont found a religion ever.

c) Yeah I do take notice of who is protecting the CS's Im looking to steal a worker from. With my typical start Im really vulnerable to an early DOW so I try not provoke my neighbours

 

[justanotherturn]

a) for fun, you can sell your happiness building, just to provoke the change of ideology.
the challenge is to build the 3 uniques ideology builing

b) no. I accept the religion, and if it's good enough i take the capitol of the funder.

c) yes on deity. dont watch otherwise.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Btw: Your amount of tourism and your people rebelling against your ideology are not connected afaik.

They are. I'm not sure about the exact math, but the ideologic pressure other civs are putting on you depends on how much influence they have on your civ, compared to how much influence you have on other civs. I try to be at least exotic with as much civs as possible even when not playing culture to avoid too much unhappiness.
And yeah, Eifel Tower is great, even on Deity it's often possible to get it, and that +12 tourism, soon to be +18 with an hotel really helps. Eifel + a few artifacts in museums should be enough to defend your ideology or at least avoid the worst disorder in most games. When i'm not playing culture i also throw in a few GW of music (as i won't concert bomb), but i keep my Writers for Social Policies and Artists for Golden Ages.

 

[bison21]

I have changed my ideology before, yes. A few times, actually. Freedom -> Order and Order -> Autocracy (not in the same game, ofc). I was warmongering, and the dominant culture civs were not in reach for several turns to attack. I find that 2 turns of sitting duck are more beneficial than combating happiness problems all the time. It doesn't constantly happen but I like that ideology change isn't much of a game breaker.

 

[Syntax Error]

Question:

Do you get the founder benefits as well if you sack a holy city?

 

[Casper84]

A) I have yet to play a BNW game long enough to get there at all lol. Probably would change the first time I do. Otherwise I'd stick with what I choose probably.

B) Same situation as you but on YnAEMP huge Earth as Polynesia. Fishing boat production basically was my production apart from a stray hill. Sure I had a few cities on Australia and Guinea before the AD's but with 3-5 seas resources per island city the pantheon was a big deal. And with that I could spam cities a bit for better pressure.

C) I don't steal workers other than those I get via barbarians, unless I play as a warmonger civ by chance.

 

[Browd]

Question:

Do you get the founder benefits as well if you sack a holy city?

No, you do not.

 

[Redaxe]

A: Never tried it yet. It sounds like you were unlucky having everyone simultaneously gang up on you. Did you have any friends, I always work to make sure I have good relations with at least 1 other civ and if we end up with opposing ideologies it is still possible to maintain decent relations. It sounds like everyone had a grudge against you.
The best way to make friends is find a distant civ that hasn't caused you or any existing friends any grief, set up embassies and give them 5GPT so you get the bright green "we've traded recently". Usually they should ask for friendship soon after.

B: I played a game of Brazil recently on deity where I was last to get a religion but I was able to get Fertility Rites but all my other cities were converted to better religions that had Jesuit education. I did pick Religious Art for the Hermitage for culture victory but I was so far behind in expansion and technology that I had no chance to win a culture victory. I quit soon after as I was clearly in a losing position.
I would say yes it can be worth micromanaging religions if someone is converting your cities and has access to religious buildings and Jesuit Education. If you're clever you can get reap the bonuses from multiple religions.
C: If you can I would highly recommend stealing workers from other civs. I tend to play with extra AIs because the default number of players is not that high especially as going wide early is not really viable. So normally there is an AI not far from me. Stealing their worker handicaps the AI and benefits you. That means the AI will need to waste time to build another worker while saving you from having to do that. Usually they are willing to make peace soon after even offer friendship to.